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	<title>Comments on: First To Fly?</title>
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	<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mikej</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2228</link>
		<dc:creator>mikej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2228</guid>
		<description>Just to confirm blogger 24...
yes, 787 is having delamination problems and a host of soon-to-crop-up "new" delays (but which aren't new to big-B but they're trying desperately to resolve without having to announce more delays). All are from the static test model on-the-rack.

The Big-B idiots who ran the early 787 program relied way too much on computer-simulations, instead of hard evidence.  And in the process "gave-away" and "lost" much hard-learned knowledge regarding aircraft stresses and fatigue loads (to the lowest bidder no less) and let the "partner-company" design how they thought best.  By doing this, big-B lost and now has to re-learn what was already known once before they gave it away.  Why did they do this? 

I ask some managers "how did they ever sell so many 787s before they ever built one that flies?" most common answer I get is "smoke and mirrors".  I pray and hope my "787 swindle theory" is wrong, but how could a reputible longstanding company make so many blatantly wrong errors in judgement?  

And it was MD's Harry Stoncipher and many other MD managers overseeing intial 787 start up... and he hated Boeing with a passion (I probalby shouldn't even go there). 

Back to this articles topic:  It is well known throughout many organizations at big-B, that the 747-8F will very likely fly first. And that program IS determined to win this contest.  

ps: 747-8F LN1420 is scheduled to start loading in Final Body Join soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to confirm blogger 24&#8230;<br />
yes, 787 is having delamination problems and a host of soon-to-crop-up &#8220;new&#8221; delays (but which aren&#8217;t new to big-B but they&#8217;re trying desperately to resolve without having to announce more delays). All are from the static test model on-the-rack.</p>
<p>The Big-B idiots who ran the early 787 program relied way too much on computer-simulations, instead of hard evidence.  And in the process &#8220;gave-away&#8221; and &#8220;lost&#8221; much hard-learned knowledge regarding aircraft stresses and fatigue loads (to the lowest bidder no less) and let the &#8220;partner-company&#8221; design how they thought best.  By doing this, big-B lost and now has to re-learn what was already known once before they gave it away.  Why did they do this? </p>
<p>I ask some managers &#8220;how did they ever sell so many 787s before they ever built one that flies?&#8221; most common answer I get is &#8220;smoke and mirrors&#8221;.  I pray and hope my &#8220;787 swindle theory&#8221; is wrong, but how could a reputible longstanding company make so many blatantly wrong errors in judgement?  </p>
<p>And it was MD&#8217;s Harry Stoncipher and many other MD managers overseeing intial 787 start up&#8230; and he hated Boeing with a passion (I probalby shouldn&#8217;t even go there). </p>
<p>Back to this articles topic:  It is well known throughout many organizations at big-B, that the 747-8F will very likely fly first. And that program IS determined to win this contest.  </p>
<p>ps: 747-8F LN1420 is scheduled to start loading in Final Body Join soon.</p>
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		<title>By: B380</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2225</link>
		<dc:creator>B380</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2225</guid>
		<description>"Type in Airbus Massive Insider Trading. Read away."
I think you should do some reading first.

"As for British jobs being outsourced to Spain and Germany"
Work share moves around, within Airbus.

"Sux to be a Brit in Airbus."
Do you feel the same sympathy towards Boeing employees, whose company outsourced 90% of the 787?

"UK workshare will be slowly transferred to the other “partners”
Now that is ironic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Type in Airbus Massive Insider Trading. Read away.&#8221;<br />
I think you should do some reading first.</p>
<p>&#8220;As for British jobs being outsourced to Spain and Germany&#8221;<br />
Work share moves around, within Airbus.</p>
<p>&#8220;Sux to be a Brit in Airbus.&#8221;<br />
Do you feel the same sympathy towards Boeing employees, whose company outsourced 90% of the 787?</p>
<p>&#8220;UK workshare will be slowly transferred to the other “partners”<br />
Now that is ironic.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Bloodaxe</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2222</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Bloodaxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2222</guid>
		<description>B380 As I said a long time a go "Google is your friend".  Type in Airbus Massive Insider Trading.  Read away.  The AMF only went after the top 17, letting the rest get away with being crooks. 

You see the difference that I pointed out is that in the USA we have actual laws, with actual teeth to prevent this sort of thing, and actually PUNISH people who engage in insider trading.  As opposed to Europe where it's wink and a nod, maybe a slap on the wrist.  Use the Google again for Sarbanes Oxly and educate yourself. 

As for British jobs being outsourced to Spain and Germany... try wing skins on both A400M and A350.  Traditional British workshare, given to the Spanish and Germans.  Sux to be a Brit in Airbus. They are living on borrowed time. Eventually, over time all the UK workshare will be slowly transferred to the other "partners" or given to the Chinese like is happening on the A320 wings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B380 As I said a long time a go &#8220;Google is your friend&#8221;.  Type in Airbus Massive Insider Trading.  Read away.  The AMF only went after the top 17, letting the rest get away with being crooks. </p>
<p>You see the difference that I pointed out is that in the USA we have actual laws, with actual teeth to prevent this sort of thing, and actually PUNISH people who engage in insider trading.  As opposed to Europe where it&#8217;s wink and a nod, maybe a slap on the wrist.  Use the Google again for Sarbanes Oxly and educate yourself. </p>
<p>As for British jobs being outsourced to Spain and Germany&#8230; try wing skins on both A400M and A350.  Traditional British workshare, given to the Spanish and Germans.  Sux to be a Brit in Airbus. They are living on borrowed time. Eventually, over time all the UK workshare will be slowly transferred to the other &#8220;partners&#8221; or given to the Chinese like is happening on the A320 wings.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2217</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2217</guid>
		<description>http:// leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/787-first-flight/#comment-1363

Check it out

Boeing's 

"working together"

finally realised!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://" rel="nofollow">http://</a> leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/787-first-flight/#comment-1363</p>
<p>Check it out</p>
<p>Boeing&#8217;s </p>
<p>&#8220;working together&#8221;</p>
<p>finally realised!</p>
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		<title>By: B380</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2212</link>
		<dc:creator>B380</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2212</guid>
		<description>40.  Erik Bloodaxe  &#124;  July 16th, 2009 at 20:35

"Yet, you never, ever speak ill of your beloved Airbus"

There is no need to speak ill, one can express an opinion and I expressed my opinion on many occasions. The fact is I do not express exactly the same opinion as you. But for your information I will say (please refer to this in the future):
A400M - is a disaster and I do not deny it. Only God knows what will happen from this day on.
A380 - I have a different opinion to you and it is that it's too early to speak of its demise yet. The 200 orders it has gathered is low but it has only entered service less than 2 years ago. A lot of airlines are waiting to see how it will perform and for the traffic to pick up. The CATIA mess was indeed a royal screw up but it has delivered on performance guarantee at EIS, which is what many predicted it wouldn't. Plenty of more work ahead, weight and performance improvement. I can tell you much more is ahead. But of course we disagree on that.
A350 - I had said that, for me, the strongest model they have is the -900. -800 will turn out to be weak against the B789, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets binned. -1000 is wait and see, many unknowns yet.

787 - I am a fan of it. It looks good, it sounds good and it has a good business case on paper. The execution of the programme was poor and it is a pity for the engineers who worked and continue to work on it. As I said in the reply 4, everyone, including me want to see it in the air.

Now we come on to this...
41.  Erik Bloodaxe  &#124;  July 16th, 2009 at 20:40

"The inspectors found evidence of over 1500 middle and upper managers engaging in insider trading."
I would like to read about that.

"that is the majority of Airbus managers."
So how many 'middle managers' Airbus has? You have the figures?

"... Airbus would be out of business"
Another wishful thinking.

"... Euro Jobs program company"
Very popular slogan, of course. One does ignore the financial performance of the company of course but who cares, right?

"I’m not fond of Airbus"
I guessed that but at least you put it in a polite manner.

From the WTO topic:

64.  Erik Bloodaxe  &#124;  July 7th, 2009 at 17:02

“All the while exporting British (NOT English) jobs to Germany and Spain.”
Can you show an example of that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>40.  Erik Bloodaxe  |  July 16th, 2009 at 20:35</p>
<p>&#8220;Yet, you never, ever speak ill of your beloved Airbus&#8221;</p>
<p>There is no need to speak ill, one can express an opinion and I expressed my opinion on many occasions. The fact is I do not express exactly the same opinion as you. But for your information I will say (please refer to this in the future):<br />
A400M - is a disaster and I do not deny it. Only God knows what will happen from this day on.<br />
A380 - I have a different opinion to you and it is that it&#8217;s too early to speak of its demise yet. The 200 orders it has gathered is low but it has only entered service less than 2 years ago. A lot of airlines are waiting to see how it will perform and for the traffic to pick up. The CATIA mess was indeed a royal screw up but it has delivered on performance guarantee at EIS, which is what many predicted it wouldn&#8217;t. Plenty of more work ahead, weight and performance improvement. I can tell you much more is ahead. But of course we disagree on that.<br />
A350 - I had said that, for me, the strongest model they have is the -900. -800 will turn out to be weak against the B789, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if it gets binned. -1000 is wait and see, many unknowns yet.</p>
<p>787 - I am a fan of it. It looks good, it sounds good and it has a good business case on paper. The execution of the programme was poor and it is a pity for the engineers who worked and continue to work on it. As I said in the reply 4, everyone, including me want to see it in the air.</p>
<p>Now we come on to this&#8230;<br />
41.  Erik Bloodaxe  |  July 16th, 2009 at 20:40</p>
<p>&#8220;The inspectors found evidence of over 1500 middle and upper managers engaging in insider trading.&#8221;<br />
I would like to read about that.</p>
<p>&#8220;that is the majority of Airbus managers.&#8221;<br />
So how many &#8216;middle managers&#8217; Airbus has? You have the figures?</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; Airbus would be out of business&#8221;<br />
Another wishful thinking.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; Euro Jobs program company&#8221;<br />
Very popular slogan, of course. One does ignore the financial performance of the company of course but who cares, right?</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m not fond of Airbus&#8221;<br />
I guessed that but at least you put it in a polite manner.</p>
<p>From the WTO topic:</p>
<p>64.  Erik Bloodaxe  |  July 7th, 2009 at 17:02</p>
<p>“All the while exporting British (NOT English) jobs to Germany and Spain.”<br />
Can you show an example of that?</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Bloodaxe</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2209</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Bloodaxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2209</guid>
		<description>one more thing, the reason why I'm not fond of Airbus? Mainly because they are by and large a bunch of crooks. The insider trading case is very telling. The inspectors found evidence of over 1500 middle and upper managers engaging in insider trading. That is not just "a few bad apples", that is the majority of Airbus managers. Had Europe any kind of actual laws with teeth in them, rather than a wink and a nod system Airbus would be out of business. Had any American company been found to be so monumentally corrupt, it would, but see that's the difference between an American company and a Euro Jobs program company.  And people wonder why EADS will never list in the USA.  LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one more thing, the reason why I&#8217;m not fond of Airbus? Mainly because they are by and large a bunch of crooks. The insider trading case is very telling. The inspectors found evidence of over 1500 middle and upper managers engaging in insider trading. That is not just &#8220;a few bad apples&#8221;, that is the majority of Airbus managers. Had Europe any kind of actual laws with teeth in them, rather than a wink and a nod system Airbus would be out of business. Had any American company been found to be so monumentally corrupt, it would, but see that&#8217;s the difference between an American company and a Euro Jobs program company.  And people wonder why EADS will never list in the USA.  LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Bloodaxe</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2208</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Bloodaxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2208</guid>
		<description>B380 contraposto, find me an example of you ever talking bad about Airbus, or good about Boeing. 

I've been equally disparriging of both. The fact that both are currently monumental failures of managment is not just my opinion, but verifiable FACT. From A380 petty arguments that turned out a defective product, to insider trading, to A400M failure on the Airbus side. To "Potemkin" roll outs, multiple delays, idiotic selection of "partners", to incompetent managers being promoted rather than fired, to out right lies and/or incompetence at the most recent Paris air show for Boeing... neither company is doing very well.  Yet, you never, ever speak ill of your beloved Airbus. Odd that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B380 contraposto, find me an example of you ever talking bad about Airbus, or good about Boeing. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been equally disparriging of both. The fact that both are currently monumental failures of managment is not just my opinion, but verifiable FACT. From A380 petty arguments that turned out a defective product, to insider trading, to A400M failure on the Airbus side. To &#8220;Potemkin&#8221; roll outs, multiple delays, idiotic selection of &#8220;partners&#8221;, to incompetent managers being promoted rather than fired, to out right lies and/or incompetence at the most recent Paris air show for Boeing&#8230; neither company is doing very well.  Yet, you never, ever speak ill of your beloved Airbus. Odd that.</p>
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		<title>By: ikkeman</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2200</link>
		<dc:creator>ikkeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2200</guid>
		<description>38.  chaser  &#124;  July 16th, 2009 at 02:39
I'd very much like to agree, but I cannot believe both companies would attract the same style manager. 
might it not be something inherent in the way business is done in the west. It's not even limited to aerospace, all large engineering jobs take longer and cost more. 
could it be that our way of demanding "fixed" budgets and schedule before a job starts is inherently flawed? How could any manager estimate the time it takes to complete correctly when a significant percentage of the hours must be spend on unforeseen events and therefore cannot be fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>38.  chaser  |  July 16th, 2009 at 02:39<br />
I&#8217;d very much like to agree, but I cannot believe both companies would attract the same style manager.<br />
might it not be something inherent in the way business is done in the west. It&#8217;s not even limited to aerospace, all large engineering jobs take longer and cost more.<br />
could it be that our way of demanding &#8220;fixed&#8221; budgets and schedule before a job starts is inherently flawed? How could any manager estimate the time it takes to complete correctly when a significant percentage of the hours must be spend on unforeseen events and therefore cannot be fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: chaser</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2199</link>
		<dc:creator>chaser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2199</guid>
		<description>At the current time both are poorly run companies, full of managers with nothing but monumental FAILURE scrawled across their foreheads.

IN VERY LARGE LETTERS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the current time both are poorly run companies, full of managers with nothing but monumental FAILURE scrawled across their foreheads.</p>
<p>IN VERY LARGE LETTERS</p>
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		<title>By: B380</title>
		<link>http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/07/10/747-787/comment-page-1/#comment-2198</link>
		<dc:creator>B380</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/?p=729#comment-2198</guid>
		<description>36.  Erik Bloodaxe  &#124;  July 15th, 2009 at 16:53

You know Erik, there is an even funnier thing. I have never attacked Boeing or claimed they can do no wrong, or Airbus does everything right, unlike you,  constantly having a go at Airbus. To get a 'Fanboi' badge all I did was disagree with you. I really think you need to calm down because you start reminding me of Douglas McVitie... hot air and no substance. Just accept it, people may have a different point of view to yours.
I challenge you to find a post where I painted "Everything is either black or white, good (all things Airbus) or Evil (anything Boeing)".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>36.  Erik Bloodaxe  |  July 15th, 2009 at 16:53</p>
<p>You know Erik, there is an even funnier thing. I have never attacked Boeing or claimed they can do no wrong, or Airbus does everything right, unlike you,  constantly having a go at Airbus. To get a &#8216;Fanboi&#8217; badge all I did was disagree with you. I really think you need to calm down because you start reminding me of Douglas McVitie&#8230; hot air and no substance. Just accept it, people may have a different point of view to yours.<br />
I challenge you to find a post where I painted &#8220;Everything is either black or white, good (all things Airbus) or Evil (anything Boeing)&#8221;.</p>
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