No News Equals Good News?
October 27th, 2008
That’s the hope for both IAM and Boeing as talks continued this past weekend with a view to ending the current strike which has entered its eighth week.
“No details of the talks will be available until this round of talks have concluded,” the IAM’s website shows - dual interpretation of which can be surmised that either things are going well or it could be tougher than either side imagined.
There have been fears that whenever talks between the two parties take place, outside interference rears its head and “derails” the focus. Most recently it was Goldman Sachs bizarre cut on Boeing stock, while failing to acknowledge the shortcomings of rival Airbus.
Image courtesy of St. Louis Post-Dispatch
One IAM member who spoke on condition of anonymity highlighted how the talks could be jeopardised by third parties.
“Up to this point, Boeing has been steadfast in it’s statements that it’s order book would hold.
It has also stated it stands ready to offer financing to customers. Every one of us on the shop floor knows that production rate increases were in the cards in the near future. We also know that a major stumbling block to selling more aircraft is a lack of open delivery slots, even as we try to become more efficient to open those slots up.
Now one man, and one firm, seeks to interfere in the negotiating process and inject fear into the membership. And it should not be forgotten that Goldman Sachs is one of the firms whose infinite wisdom is crushing our economy.
I’m not buying the trash Goldman Sachs is selling.“
With this sort of animosity towards external factors, IAM members, while remaining resolute in their quest for job security are equally concerned for the well being of its employer.
Talking helps, and while we wait for an outcome, the longer they continue, the more hope one can have that settlement is close at hand.
“The deciding factor is whether progress is being made at the bargaining table. If we’re making progress, then continuing to talk is always preferable,” says SPEEA Executive Director, Ray Goforth.
So can no news be viewed as good news?
Certainly it can - continuing the talks benefits everyone, and Boeing would more than likely pursue the same approach when it starts detailed contract discussions with SPEEA this week too.
Image courtesy of Spirit AeroSystems
Having seen the knock on effects of the strike all but shut down Vought’s operations on 787 fuselage fabrication to Spirit AeroSystems and numerous airlines having to wait longer than planned to take delivery of their airplanes, the overall situation will become more urgent as time goes on.
With the festive season approaching, an ongoing strike will do untold damage to the already delayed 787, the 747-8 and hot selling 737 and 777 families.
(Prior articles on the Boeing/IAM strike can be found by clicking these links here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.)
Sphere: Related ContentEntry Filed under: Aeroplane, Airlines, Airplane, Airplane Order, Airplanes, Boeing, IAM, SPEEA
25 Comments Add your own
1. boeing investor | October 27th, 2008 at 10:30 am
It’s all very well blaming an analyst and brokerage for Boeing’s duress, but the crucial part that striking workers omit is they, their union leadership and their greed is to blame for the standoff.
Perhaps instead of bailing out banks, the Administration should bail out Boeing, destrory the unions, hire new labor and then sell the company on again.
2. Graphite Epoxy | October 27th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
‘Take all the union members at Boeng, make them homeless, and maximize suffering.’
This is what I read.
boeing investor says it, and we have no other choice but to take him seriously. Thus we have to act with confidence that Boeing and people like this poster want us destroyed.
This is has been Boeing’s goal since the merger. It took awhile for us all to wake up to the fact.
So rather than a pitiless exhibition of outright hostility, I take boeing investor’s comment as nothing more than a restatement of a plan to destroy us and the future of middle class working Americans. While his basic premise for his beleif of what motivates us is wrong, his desires fall right in the mainstram of the big business and the globalist mindset.
Boeing declared war on it’s workforce back in 1997, The Blitzkrieg has seen half of our membership laid waste to.
But it’s winter now, and the advance of corperate America is stalled in a snowdrift. It’s run out of time, and sits frozen, starved and out of ammunition.
3. Bobbelieu | October 27th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
So how are things back in cave man days, BI? Getting in much hunting and gathering?
B~
4. boeing investor | October 27th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
On the contrary, all I want is union blackmail removed.
To beholden your employer, your paymaster to threats of walking out because the offer they gave you isn’t what you demand is wrong.
There are plenty of people out there in Puget Sound and beyond who can do your jobs for less if Boeing wanted them on its payroll.
Instead of taking cheapshots at me, which I don’t mind, why not look at what you risk losing because of the union leadership that is doing a far better task of threatening your jobs than the cheap labor market here and abroad that Boeing could EASILY tap into.
5. Bernie Bernard | October 27th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
What continues to amaze me is how small of an
understanding investors have of the work that is
performed by the IAM employees at Boeing. Apparently
the investors think we are similar to automotive workers
who need to install a component every 45 seconds.
Boeing could easily eliminate a lot of the senior employees on the payroll by offering an early retirement thus allowing young lower paid empoyees to replace us. Just the opposite is true, Boeing has been
hiring retired employees as contractors to help train
employees. over the last two years Boeing has held
job fairs all over the U.S. with limited success. People
are not going to relocate to the puget sound region
for $16.00 - $20.00 an hour when then price of a house is $300,000.00 and sales tax is 9%. (plus traffic jams, crime, etc, etc) The people that I work with are damn proud of what we do but pride does not pay the electric bill, alll we want is to be able to live in this region of the
U.S. and afford to raise our families.
6. Paul Revere | October 27th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Despite the huge back log in planes to build, Boeing management would rather see the company sink into bankruptcy than to make a fair offer to its employees.
As with most aerospace giants, Boeing’s attitude with its labor, engineers and skilled trades, is obviously adversarial. In addition, its vividly apparent that management has no respect whatsoever of the wishes of its shareholders. Just look at the billions wasted over the strike. The Boeing managements ego is running the company into financial ruin.
Boeing wants to break the unions so that they can return the company to the old days of laying off and hiring at the drop of a hat.
7. JR | October 27th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
The Unions members greed? Maybe if Mcnerney wasnt so greedy it would rub on the hourly. If you dont think his “Horray for me and the hell with you” attitude had anything to do with this strike……..you are nuts!
Americas CEO’s are used to taking all they want and giving the table scraps to the folks that really earn it.
He didnt need to do this…..HE WANTED TO DO THIS….and he should be fired for it
8. MEG | October 27th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
boeing investor, you are a disgruntled person and your facts are off center.
What makes you think the IAM is greedy? Look around you. Look what is happening to our financial institutions. Did the IAM or any union have a hand in that?
BA CEO’s and executives are the ones that are full of greedy, by thinking that they can outsource an airplane and slap it together with minimum staffing, in order to save coin. BA does not pass the saving along to its customers. PERIOD. 175 million for a 777 is 175 million, no matter how much you try and become efficient. I was able to save this company and this program millions by injecting standard work processes, years ago, but the company would not accept this level of effficiecy.
BA is poorly managed by short sightedness. Old men that are looking for ways to make a quick buck and get out, without solving problems that are long term.
There is a simple solution to this whole debacle. Unfortunately, BA management and its unions don’t want to hear it.
9. Mark | October 27th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I don’t get this blame the CEO mentality. Should we blame McNerney for rising health care costs across the country? How about the cost of living in Puget Sound? Hmmm….should we blame him for the global recession and stock market crash? Even the outsourcing model for the 787 was set in place before he was CEO! The fact is that IAM was offered a decent 11% wage increase with substantial markups of the hourly rate at the low end. That’s what he can control and I deem that a fair offer!
10. boeing investor | October 27th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Quote - I don’t get this blame the CEO mentality. Should we blame McNerney for rising health care costs across the country? How about the cost of living in Puget Sound? Hmmm….should we blame him for the global recession and stock market crash? Even the outsourcing model for the 787 was set in place before he was CEO! End Quote
At last - someone with a grasp of the wider situation.
Maybe now some of the striking guys n gals will see the benefits of the Boeing contract?
11. DonS | October 27th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
RE the Goldman Sachs comments- It is interesting that so called investors are wiling to blindly accept an analysts opinions which are probably biased- and in this case may be the result of conflict of interest between the Boeing Company board of Directionless and Goldman Sachs ! - Great setup for trashing the union - especially since Mr Carson made it clear he had every intention of busting the union. What better support can he get except from Goldman Sachs ??
Look who just got hired into AIG by his Goldman Sachs buddy. its its . . . Edward M. Liddy !
From the Boeing site
Edward M. Liddy
Director Since 2007
Former Chairman of The Allstate Corporation. Mr. Liddy served as Chairman of the Board of The Allstate Corporation from January 1999 to April 2008. He served as chief executive officer of Allstate from January 1999 to December 2006, president from January 1995 to May 2005, and chief operating officer from August 1994 to January 1999. Mr. Liddy will become a partner in the private equity investment firm of Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, Inc.
Mr. Liddy is on the boards of the following public companies in addition to The Boeing Company and Allstate: 3M Company and The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. He also is chairman emeritus of Northwestern Memorial Hospital and serves on the boards of Northwestern University and the Museum of Science and Industry. Mr. Liddy is a member of the Compensation Committee and the Governance, Organization and Nominating Committee.
And still more - a BIG part of AIG is this little leasing organization called ILFC who own/lease a bundle of Boeing and Airbutt Aircraft.
Listen up Boeing grunts - due to the well known Bailout issue and the indirect involvement of members of the Board - there will be EXTRA classes and from now on .
Trashing the U.S economy and whacking the financial status of the Boeing company with unethical practices is reserved for the Board members. Infringement on their turf will be punished !
Now add this little bit of info
Note date - - - -
http://tinyurl.com/4xrxpt - - - -
Q&A: RAY GOFORTH–
SPEEA union chief at Boeing readies for fight—
JOHN GILLIE; john.gill—enewstribune—–
Published: March 17th, 2008 01:00 AM | Updated: March 17th, 2008 05:50 AM—-
++++What happened when you met with Boeing’s Carson and Kight? ++++
– - - - -Mr. Carson explained that he wanted to get rid of all unions at Boeing and that he intended to continue to support the efforts to bust the bargaining units where they could. - - - - - It was disappointing. I appreciated the candor. It did supply some clarity on these problems. I went into this hoping that we could partner to solve these problems, but the answer was “no.”
A CONNECTION ?
SEE http://www.nobusters.org/
12. 777mech | October 27th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
BI and Mark - You guys exemplify the mentality of those who do not work for the lazy B. It’s not about the money. You need to do some reading before posting here. Your posts indicate an ignorance to the facts of what this is all about. The Seattle Times has done a fair and unbiased job of covering this strike. I suggest you start there.
13. boeing investor | October 27th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
777mech - the ST has done about a good a “job” on coverage as has the S-PI.
If anything, the ST has leaned towards the unions - sure, it has Boeing execs speaking too, but unbiased - thats a step too far.
We know its not about money, its job security - how on Earth do you expect to secure your jobs when you strike and hand Boeing carte blanche to reinforce farming work out abroad?
Two wrongs do not make a right - its a pity neither the union leadership or its members see that.
By Thanksgiving, just watch how many cross those lines to feed their families. The union weekly check is a bigger insult than they think Boeing’s offer is.
14. michael | October 27th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
like i have allways said birds of a feather flock together just as i goes to show with all overpaid cronies and there buddies that play the same, Liddy, Aig, and all the others that fit into the same glove there time is coming.
15. Chocolate | October 27th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
This talk makes my nuts itch!
16. 777mech | October 27th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
BI- How have the Times stories leaned more to the union? I haven’t read anything that would support such a statement. The first stories out of the PI and the rest of the local media focused mainly on the money aspects of the BAFO. The Times was the first to accurately report what the issues were to both sides and has continued to do so. The PI eventually got on board as did the rest of the media.
A strike is the last resort. What other leverage do we have other than to withhold our labor. We all want Boeing to be successful. But at what cost? Should we never strike? Back in 2002 we got a bad contract. We didn’t strike. The economy and the company were still feeling the effects of the 9/11 attacks. The company used that to get what they wanted. Boeing’s 2016 vision is to have as little to do with manufacturing and assembly of their product as possible. Our strike has little to do with that. Boeing would continue down this path regardless. It’s the business model they wish to follow. Same path MD took. How many commercial jets are they building now? We really didn’t have any ethics problems either until after the merger with MD.
Boeing’s production methods of the 707, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 is what made us number 1. Not to say it was perfect. It could be refined and made better. We’ve been doing that. We’ve participated in all of Boeing’s efficiency programs. But it seems that all we are doing is leaning out a process and making it as simple and efficient as possible so Boeing could just take it elsewhere. “
17. 777mech | October 27th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Oops. Left out the 727.
18. Cathi | October 27th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
This is what I see is happening to “corporate America”. Corporate Raiding. When a Company hires someone to run a company and they start changing the formula of how much money they should recieve (more for them!!) Then what stake does that person have in our company?? It appears that the attitude is always “get mine and get out”. How many of these companies that are going bankrupt have people in charge that are losing money? It is always the people who put in the labor that get screwedl The machinists have a stake in Boeing, they want to see it prosper. that is why they have not asked for more in the last 6 years. they wanted to give the company a break during Boeing’s hard time. Well, now Boeing is not having a hard time( except what it creates for itself by keeping us on strike and outsourcing). Mr. Investor, do you know how much money is wasted by sending something overseas and then having to re-make or send people over there to do the job so it is done right. Machinists take pride in what they do. We haven’t received a raise in 6 years. Do you work without a raise for 6 years??
Yes, there are people out there who are in bad shape. Have they tried to get on at Boeing? Boeing is looking for people all the time.
Pride in work versus getting money and getting out. Who do you think has a stake in this company and wants what is best for it. I think the machinists have more than proven their mettle.
19. Jon | October 27th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
I agree that Boeing has continued it’s downward slope with MD now. They seemed determined along with George W. Bush, to destroy everything built by past generations.
Got to wonder how investors, employees and the future of this nation can keep going with such a short sighted direction.
May Americans wake up to the words of Thomas Jefferson.
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
20. Ken Taylor | October 28th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Here’s what I think is happening!
The Mediator has told Boeing and the Union that this is their last kick at the cat, so we all sit down and hammer this out, we don’t go home until a deal is done.
If that doesn’t happen, the Mediator will book out, never to be seen again.
Boeing and the Union will be on their own, and somebody will fold, after a very long strike.
Will there be a union after it all settles out?
Boeing will survive, albeit a little short of income, but they do have options.
Its either going to be over by this weekend, or it’s going to a long one.
21. aircraft_painter | October 28th, 2008 at 1:42 am
New Boeing contract offer in the next few days….
“Boeing has been
hiring retired employees as contractors to help train
employees.”
Yes they offered my retired Aunt $60.00 an hour (no benefits) to come back to train the new hires. She refused.
22. Ken Taylor | October 28th, 2008 at 1:48 am
It’s over, deal has been made, subject to ratification!
Good news for everybody
23. bobbelieu | October 28th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
“From the Boeing site
Edward M. Liddy
Director Since 2007
Former Chairman of The Allstate Corporation. Mr. Liddy served as Chairman of the Board of The Allstate Corporation from January 1999 to April 2008. He served as chief executive officer of Allstate from January 1999 to December 2006, president from January 1995 to May 2005, and chief operating officer from August 1994 to January 1999. Mr. Liddy will become a partner in the private equity investment firm of Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, Inc.”
[i]And this just in from Boeing News Now:[/i]
“[b]Boeing director Edward Liddy resigns board seat[/]
The Boeing board of directors accepted the resignation of Edward Liddy on Monday. Liddy, who last month was named chairman of American International Group, offered to leave based on his concerns that he no longer qualifies as an independent director. Boeing and AIG’s airplane-leasing subsidiary, International Lease Finance Corp., have a significant business relationship. Jim McNerney, Boeing chairman, president and CEO, called Liddy’s service on the board “exemplary and deeply appreciated.” Liddy joined the board in August 2007. “
24. bobbelieu | October 28th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Hmm…apparently this site didn’t take my tags.
B~
25. Bobbelieu | October 28th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
“On the contrary, all I want is union blackmail removed.”
…and replace it with corporate blackmail.
Nice. Well, corporate America had its chance with the last eight years of deregulation and free market philosophies…and they spiked the ball.
Time for us worker bees to take them to the woodshed.
You have my sympathies, BI. It must be difficult to wake up one morning and discover your comfy little world had blown up.
Where do I send the flowers?
B~
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