37 Comments Add your own

• 1. Ken  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm

  Both parties should agree to an impartial mediator,
  lock both sides with the mediator in a room and tell them until you agree on a deal you will remain locked in with only meal and bathroom breaks allowed.

  Amazing how fast this will be resolved !

• 2. Grace  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm

  has anyone seen a mediator? Boeing is interested in getting a federal bailout. Gregoire sent the Boeing appointed one during the 48 hour delay. Gregoire is politicing and forgot her job. The only way to settle the issue is fire up the bird and force the m issue through crossing.

• 3. StrutGuy  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  HERE! HERE! It’s amazing how much quicker negotiations take place when the negotiators are forced to meet with each other. Calling a federal mediator simply isn’t enough. Contract negotiations should be like jury deliberations. You’re sequestered until you’re done, period. I’m getting tired of watching my money go away while both sides wait for the other to blink. Considering how much it’s affecting their customers I would think Boeing would want to get this done soon. However, as my neighbor who is a second level supervisor at Boeing said, “Boeing doesn’t go on strike unless they want to go on strike.” There’s a reason for the delay and it’s not because the IAM’s demands are out of line. Boeing’s not only deferring revenue (read no dividends to stockholders) but they’re losing a ton of interest on that revenue. This appears to be nothing but good old fashioned union busting at its worst and most petty.

  It sure is refreshing to see Boeing’s outsourcing model be challenged. I wince every time people from Mitsubishi HI come up to my area and I have to show them how to do my job.

• 4. TPE  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 4:10 pm

  It’s PLANE and simple, our IAM Union is not doing there job. We pay all those Union Fees and we get 150.00 after 3 weeks. I wish the people of the Union had to run on that same money for their household. Maybe some of us would like to use are hard earned saved money for something else other then to live on rather then support a Union that won’t go to the table right now. I am mad fighting machinist member fighting our own Union and Boeing! Lets get negotiations moving. Stop sitting on your ass UNION, we pay you.

• 5. trixie  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 5:16 pm

  The rest of the world works without unions and the USA will have to conform as well to be competitive. The order of supply and demand will prevail in goods as well as labor skills. Unions have long outlived their purpose and have become corrupt without system of checks and balances. Power corrupts and causes an unfair balance among workers and employers.

• 6. Tim  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 7:17 pm

  Even after this contract gets settled their will be bitterness for years to come. Everyone needs to ask themselves why would Boeing want to stop their momentum? Why risk market share? Why risk overall bad morale for years? The answer is nothing more than corporate greed at the highest levels. They needed an answer to their 787 dilemma. The corporate shirts won’t admit that they screwed up. That their so called vision is a nightmare. Congrats corporate. Once again the blue collar worker suffers for your mistakes. Just look at the last 3 CEO’s. I wouldn’t let them run a flea circus.

• 7. Chas  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 8:15 pm

  Tim’s comments are illogical. Boeing is not stupid. The Company is losing huge income every day during the strike. The problems with the existing 787 delays are well known and have not been blamed on the Union. The reason for no contract is simply the Union’s contract demands are unreasonable, particularly with this economy and being competitive. Boeing does not want to be the next GM. Boeing’s contract offer was incredibly good in view of the above. There will be no strike settlement unless the Union faces reality and becomes realistic.

• 8. Angel/787-MT4  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 9:36 pm

  Chas, it is your comments that are “illogical”. I hardly think that not having the entry-level wage increased in 16 years is being “unreasonable” to demand a hike. Min. wage in this state has increased $3.82 in those 16 years and the biggest company around here can’t even match that? C’mon..
  858% increase in profits in the last 5 years and 13 Billion in the last quarter should prove that it is WE who helped Boeing line their pockets with silk, and while they share some of that glory with all of their executives (522 Million in the Exec. Pension fund and not ONE penny into ours for the past year), it is we the “Machinists” that get swept under the carpet.
  1-Word…Corporate GREED!
  Boeing wanted this strike to catch up on all the parts they are waiting for and to buy time with the Vendors, plain and simple. If they really didn’t want us to strike, they could have prevented it, by being “Reasonable” in their BAFO.
  I agree with the negotiating being performed like a Jury. “No playing in Disneyland and stay in your room ’till you can get along!”

• 9. Dennis  |  September 23rd, 2008 at 10:57 pm

  I agree, they need to take both sides put them in a room and they don’t come out until they are done. The feeling on the picket line is basically screw the worker and WE in the senior leadership WILL get are millions and give them nothing!! I also must state that ALL CEO’s of companyies are in greed mode as far getting millions for pay when in fact according to the UN the MOST powerfull person in the world is the MAN in the Whitehouse and his salary is only $200,000 a year SO why are they paying so much for the CEO’s. None of them should make more than $200,000.

• 10. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am

  This Is the Way I see it..
  It is true that there is a lot of corporate Greed.. Truth is I dont Trust either the Union Leadership or the Company. I wish the Negotiations were taped then placed online for everyone to view..

  What really makes this Contract complex is not What the order book at boeing is showing.. its whats Occuring in the World Banking and Finance/Credit-

  It may not really matter whether we pay an extra 100 dollars or so to carry our families health care, if many of the workers are going to be out of work anyways in the next couple of years, in fact it might be very lucky to make it 2 years more.

• 11. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 12:18 am

  Unfortunatly- Blue Collar work force & A Leadership of Blue Collar Machinist leaders, arent exactly Financially Suavy, or Understand Really whats happening.

  You think the Fannie/Freddie/Bear Sterns/AGI Insurence moves are just normal Reccession type of Occurences, Really its not a Recession there trying to Overt- There trying to Avoid 25%+ Unemployment.

  You think you might be happier Unemployeed at the Local Food Bank? You might be standing there Wondering Why You didnt just Sign the Contract and keep yourself working as long as possible.

  Now you find yourself Running yourself most likely further into dept… and possibly loosing savings your mostly likely Going to Really Be needing in the Next couple of years.

  The truth is the money your loosing now will probably never be gained back, Unless you have 15+ years or Union Steward Jacket..

• 12. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 12:35 am

  Boeing Really isnt Loosing money-

  Deferred Revenue Maybe..

  The Store at Boeing is still Open and taking Orders.. Just because the people that Stock the Shelves are off work it doesnt mean that there isn’t financial incentives For Boeing having this strike. These planes are going to be delivered maybe a little later.. .. I wouldnt think in most cases its going to have that much of an effect on the customer if FOR EXAMPLE: they get the plane 5 years and 3 months late.

  Boeing over the years and Companies in General have been getting very Suave about dealing with Unions and lets face it they have a Great incentives and deep pockets to hire Great Negotiators.
  What does the Union through at them for Negotiations? Evidently the last contract go arround they didnt have much.. I had lost all faith in the Union Negotiators during the last strike, I was 100% behind the Strike.. then the Union Leadership got us to sign after 1 month, to a contract that did absolutly nothing.

  You know what I thought it was such a Joke.. However it was in my Opinion Incredibly effective. Was the Way the Union organized the Walk down to the Voting Booth on Voting down this Contract… That Seemed like such an Manipulative way of using Peer Pressure.

  Im going to stic out this Strike and Continue with Picket duty even though I approved the Contract- Because we must stick together.. however I havent been into this since day one.

• 13. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 12:46 am

  The Way I Understand It…
  787 DREAMLINER….

  Dreamliner has a Clause with there contracts, that States something to the effect that:

  IF MACHINIST STRIKE LASTS 1 MONTH- THE PENALTIES ON LATE DELIVERIES ARE DISMISSED..

  I’m sure there is more to this, I would think there the contract is much more complex and probably only part of the penalties would be overted, however those late penanties are a Great incentive to have a strike last 1 month.

  The company hasn’t really wanted to go back to negotiating table.. in fact didn’t they say just recently they wanted to let this cool off a month.

  Question why? didnt I turn on the Tv and on more than one occasion get to see Union Leadership acting Like Gun Slingers? This isnt the Wild West.. One Clip reminded me of George Bush Saying: BRING THEM ON…

  Like the Union is all that powerful… hahaha- Please

• 14. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 2:14 am

  What really makes this Contract complex is not What the order book at boeing is showing.. its whats Occuring in the World Banking and Finance/Credit-

  LET ME GIVE YOU EXAMPLE:

  AIG Insurance - had part of its holdings in a Chunk of aircraft Leases.. now if AIG Went down so did a good size of Boeings backlogs.

  ISNT THIS RIDICULOUS On the Yahoo Boeing Message Board:

  {{ iam a 29 year vet with boeing. this is my 4th strike and iam loving it. If boeing wants to spend all its cash on hand with this strike then let them. so far its cost them almost 2 BILLION DOLLARS. Once there stock gets in the low 40’s ill move the 750 grand that i have in my 401-k back into boeing stock. Let it ride for a year then retire. Thank you boeing. }}

  I WILL TELL YOU WHY~!

  1.)
  how’t this person Know that Boeing Lost 2 Billion Dollars? If Boeing REALLY LOST 2 Billion Dollars- You actually think they might be wanting to Negotiate.. let me tell you if Boeing was REALLY LOOSING 2 BILLION Dollars, they Wouldnt be sitting back and saying WHO CARES…~!! Afterall, Boeing’s incentives Are, “MONEY. They will do what will save them dollars, and Im willing to Betcha that if Boeing was even loosing in the short of long term several million dollars a day, they would more than be willing to negotiate.

  2.)
  Its true Boeing’s Stock went down however much of this downward movement is being felt across the Board. Stock movements are Tied to many different causes… Truth is the Market is Bouncing all over the place and the stock loosing value is just once of those things that you cant really say for certain is totally being caused by any particually event.
  Boeing has many other facets of there Business, Military, Us Government and Foreign Government Contracts.

  3.)
  Boeings Stock ends up in the low 40s.. with there Current Backlog then we as a country are in so much trouble then maybe you might need your 25+ years to even have a job. Low 40s also might mean that Delivies are getting Canceled..

  I WILL TELL YOU A SECRET:

  ORDERS ARE GETTING CURRENTLY: DEFERRED…

  PLANES Are stating to Get White-Tailed… meaning those planes in many circumstances are getting Moved out to the desert to be delivered at a later date..

  WHITE TAIL: Is when the Customer chooses not to take immediate delivery of a plane.. thats when you see no logos paint jobs on the Winglets and Tail of the plane.

  This is currently starting to occur a lot more than normally as of recently.. Things are Getting Bad- very Quickly..

• 15. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 2:27 am

  Sorry, I didnt Proof-read couple of the Different Blog Comments.

  Hopefully,”you understand my point of “Whats just my Opinion which off course doesn’t exactly make me always right. These are just my thoughts- Have a Great Evening, Joe..

• 16. mike j  |  September 24th, 2008 at 3:24 am

  Tim (blog #6) has it correct.
  While Chas (blog #7) does not, Boeing Leadership IS stupid, look how screwed-up they’ve gotten lots of stuff.
  For TPE (blog #4), I had the same opinion as you when I was 20 years younger during the 1989 IAM Strike, and that time had jus as much head-butting as this time, but that strike lasted 48 days (one month plus 18 days), and you always have the option of crossing-the-strike-line if you really thought Boeing’s last offer was acceptable, but I don’t recomend crossing until at least 3 months, if this strike lasts that long, which I hope it doesn’t.
  I’ve also noticed that SPEEA is having the the same troubles as IAM, from Boeing.
  And if Boeing breaks these two unions, then I doubt very many people will want to work for such a company.
  At the rate Boeing is outsourcing, we’ll be lucky if there is a company in five or ten years.
  I foresee Boeing becoming another Enron if they keep up their current tactics.

• 17. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 7:27 am

  Boeing another Enron?? funny… remark- Enron just making that remark is funny. Then again you would first have to have an idea what enron was doing, before making that remark and that isnt something that can be discussed on some message board. I only partially can understand it from what I read and the movie I watched.. It still leaves me partially scratching my head. However Enron and Boeing- like maybe comparing Apples and Oranges–no maybe more like Apples and Aliens…hahaha..

  I would say Boeing is really following the Auto Industry- Just take a look at Fords latest move to Mexico for there newest model, they actually cut the Mexico plant workers wages in 1/2- They actually played the Chinese Wages against the US Workers which they cut and then by cutting the US Workers wages they used that as leverage against those workers in Mexico, Are those people in Mexico really any better off with there 2 dollar wages, I believe thats by the day? im not sure just remember reading 2 dollars….imagine that and you think they have much in the way of Benefits.. Guess which X-Executive is Running the Show At FORD?? We all know- and Yes its a Small World at the top.. Yes again it does suck- how do you fight back against a System a Society that has lost its direction rewarding Greedy excess.

• 18. Joe  |  September 24th, 2008 at 7:44 am

  I wouldn’t be surprised to see Spea actually sign there new contract. I don’t see there work force being as short sighted in the World Events, Also given whats developing and if this doesn’t really slow down in the next several weeks, the cards are slowly going back to the company- I figure many of you here probably don’t like what I’m saying, however im not trying to win friends here just stating it like I see it- Corporate higher ups do and did know prior to giving there final offer many of the developements coming in the credit/markets, this wasn’t any big secret. Wall street is most likely getting proped up by government invention to keep it from possibly collapsing- that knowledge isn’t secret just Google it…

• 19. DonS  |  September 24th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

  BOEING POLICY IS THAT BRIBES DURING NEGOTIATIONS ARE CONFIDENTIAL !

  There were about 8 witnesses from the SPEEA Negotiation team to the award of a leather jacket to Mr Bofferding in late November 2005- During negotiations.
  Check with Ms Cole, Mr McCarty, Ms Moats, Mr Rice . .

  Mr Bofferding admitted via email he got the 25 year service award in 2005 and a leather jacket during negotiations -
  Witnesses were given to understand it was a pension credited service award.
  In July of this year, In writing to the Boeing plan administrator asked several related questions - Under ERISA, they had 30 days to respond. Boeing failed to do so

  http://tinyurl.com/6×8alk

  I contacted EBSA - [part of the DOL who handle ERISA issues] , - and they have been working the problem to get AN answer. A few days ago [ Thursday 18 September ] , I got a call from the local office of EBSA. Mr Janetka [ as Boeing pension plan administrator ] claims he sent me an answer on August 15th, [ IT WAS NEVER RECIEVED ] Apparently BA said it did not have to answer my questions and that any info about an award to Mr Bofferding was Confidential.

  THATS RIGHT - BOEING POLICY IS THAT BRIBES DURING NEGOTIATIONS ARE CONFIDENTIAL !

  When I reminded the EBSA that there were other questions and that Boeing routinely publishes service awards of everyone in 5 year increments,- he immediately went to contact the Boeing Plan Admin [ Mr Janetka ] who made the unsubstantiated claim about sending me a letter on August 15th. I have not yet received a letter or answer from Boeing.

  http://tinyurl.com/25t94s

  Of course the extra 5 years of pension service is worth MUCH more- at 80/month/year = 80 time 12 times 5 = 4800/year for estimated 25 years in retirement = > 120,000 ABOVE THE LIMITS SPECIFIED IN THE PENSION PLAN.

  So what does it take to get a leather jacket ?

  From Boeing Total Access in July of this year

  Mr Shuper, I have researched the request 4194173 and I am forwarding the request and resolution. [Request ] How many years of credited service are required to have a choice of the ” centennial ” leather bomber jacket or equivalent value of service award points ?
  Resolution: Good Day Mr. Shuper, Concerning the Centennial Bomber Jacket. Please note, the Centennial Bomber Jacket is available only at the Boeingstore.com and not within the Boeing Service Award program. The Centennial Bomber Jacket is currently listed on the Boeingstore.com for $229.00. To have an equal/greater value of Service Award credit available at the Boeingstore.com, one must have a 40 year service award available. If you have any further questions or require further assistance, please submit a ticket via Total Access. Kind Regards, Shannon
  Thank you, Boeing TotalAccess

  Since that Jacket takes 40 years of service - even forgetting the pension credits - and it was given by a company agent - and was less than $$ 1000 , it becomes a misdemeanor - although there is a question of de-minimus and also being a sporadic gift, etc.

  What do YOU think ???

  29 U.S.C. 186 (Taft-Hartley Act Sec. 302)

  Section 186(a) proscribes bribery, graft, and conflict-of-interest payments of money and other prohibited things of value to representatives of employees, labor union officials, and labor organizations by employers, and persons acting in the interest of employers, whose labor-management relations are governed by the Labor Management Relations Act (29 U.S.C. Sec. 141, et seq.).[FN1] The request or acceptance by any person of payments described in the statue is also prohibited. 29 U.S.C. Sec. 186(b)(1).[FN2] Federal courts have authority to enjoin violations of the statute in actions by private parties or the United States. 29 U.S.C. Sec. 186(e).[FN3] — goes on — but the message should be clear.

• 20. DonS  |  September 24th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  As to how to get Boeing to take notice - and to get both IAM and SPEEA on the same page. It is up to the membership to contact their respective teams with the following demands

  1) DEMAND YOUR TEAM GET EXPERT HELP NOW - LEGAL AND ACTUARIAL

  2) DEMAND YOUR TEAM GET COPIES OF LEGAL PLAN DOCS FOR PENSION, VIP- 401K AND MEDICAL AND POST THEM

  3) DEMAND THAT SAID DOCUMENTS BE MADE PART OF THE CONTRACT- EASILY AVAIALABLE TO ANYONE WITHOUT THE HIDE AND SEEK GAMES PLAYED BY BOEING.

  4) MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOUR LEADERS ARE NOT TO SIGN ANY CONTRACT WITH BOEING UNTIL AND UNLESS THE ABOVE DOCUMENTS ARE MADE AVAILABLE WITHOUT RESTRICTION SUCH AS POSTING ON THE UNION SITE AND **CURRENT AND UP TO DATE **COPIES READILY AVAIALABLE AT THE UNION HALLS.
  (Actually, those requirements are already part of ERISA, but no one to date has ever paid any attention.)

  5) DEMAND CREDITED SERVICE BE COUNTED ON THE BASIS OF A 365 DAY YEAR, AND MINIMUM ACCRUAL ***RATE** BE BASED ON THE MONTHLY RATE DIVIDED BY 365
  FOR EXAMPLE RATE = $$.219 OR 22 CENTS PER DAY IF $80/MONTH/YEAR OF SERVICE IS THE BASIC RATE

  For an example of the hidden takeaways over the last two decades in the pension plan

  Insert your own estimates in the following spreadsheet and look at the result of

  1) EIP 2) Bonus 3) productivity pay 4) raises
  etc on the formulas used by many retirees

  This has remained hidden because few if any employees take the time to run a month by month analysis of their pension

  Yet the months of no accrual affecting everyones pension have been known for over a decade. !

  http://home.att.net/~justfacts/SISTER_SALLY_RETIRES.pdf

  or the shorter link to the same as above

  http://tinyurl.com/6e7ote

• 21. DonS  |  September 24th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

  OOOps - forgot to include the link to the spreadsheet mentioned above

  here they are - both get the same spreadsheet

  http://home.att.net/~justfacts/SPEEA5500ANALY_A.pdf

  http://tinyurl.com/4a4fmq

  Don

• 22. jetmacjoe  |  September 25th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

  The rest of the world does not work with out Unions
  trixie. Most of Europe is heavily unionized( read better standard of living for the middle class) and so is Brazil.
  Go IAM!

• 23. Jacobin777  |  September 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

  jetmacjoe..

  Is that why Airbus is trying to sell factories and outsource as well?

• 24. Joe  |  September 26th, 2008 at 9:49 am

  Its Official… there Goes our chance of Getting a Job At WaMU- Washgington Mutual during the Strike..

  Anyone here really Understand, Whats Potentially At Stake… funny- probably not… Chances are, Willing to Bet anyone here that Within 1.5 years there will probably be a layoff that will at least eliminate most the Newly hired people if not worse.

• 25. TPE  |  September 27th, 2008 at 6:11 am

  There is a rumor that people are crossing the picket line that are from the IAM. Can anyone confirm this? I heard it was more then just a couple. I think the Union is over there head in deep doo doo with the machinist and they have no idea how to settle this or go back to the table. So we have five months more of 150.00 a week, hold me back. I can’t wait to get a check that can’t even pay the electric bill folks.

• 26. 1480guy  |  September 27th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

  I have been watching the financial news very closely, and let me tell you I am very worried. This is not the time to be out of work. I will be going back to my job on WEDNESDAY. I think all workers should give this strike a second thought. Lets all get back to work…

• 27. yes  |  September 28th, 2008 at 7:04 am

  To the (1480Guy) I agree fully, I would rather be at work then working were I am now. I am not going to eat up my savings simply because greed by our own union members is beyond the limits of realism. Check the world people, it is going to hell in a hand-bag and lets just be off work. Get to WORK- including our UNION PRES.
  Tom W. This is B.S.

• 28. yes  |  September 28th, 2008 at 7:15 am

  I want to know who is favor of marching into Boeing on OCTOBER 1s, 2008 and going back to work? I am! (IAM IS NOT) I want to see a poll on here if we have some support to move things forward with, without the UNION and BOEING. A paycheck is a paycheck.

• 29. Joe  |  September 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

  Unfortunatly Its not Worth it.. Putting yourself in a Position of loosing your Working relationships with your co-workers.. I would like to enjoy going to work…

  There is situations that depending on your area and coworkers that you could loose your job By returning to work without the Unions and Majority approval of the Sheep.hahaha.. Most of Society is Sheep though- What you think the Politicians stategy is.

  There is from my experience Areas that are downright controlled by Rednecks, I would say to anyone especially from what Ive seen if you have a lot of Old School Union members people been in the company 20+ years dont risk it.. Especially if the Management is from this group, partially or wholly… I have heard of people loosing there jobs by retribution from co-workers & management.

  Personally I don’t and wouldn’t have any hard feelings about anyone crossing the line to protect there family. I guess maybe PROTECT would be the right word to use. I have family myself to provide for..

• 30. Angel/787-MT4  |  October 1st, 2008 at 9:21 am

  Go ahead and cross the picket line if you must (Yes & 1480guy), however, not only will you be telling Boeing that they win and can treat us however they like and will continue to do so in the future, but you will be telling your fellow IAM brothers and sisters that you don’t care to stand beside them in solidarity to get what we deserve. You may be able to get that “paycheck”, but I guarantee your life at Boeing will never be the same if you cross the picket line. Suddenly the co-workers you thought of as friends will no longer support you or help you with anything you need and will most likely be snubbing you for life. Even worse case scenario, some may even go out of their way to make your work-life miserable. Furthermore, by crossing the picket line against the Union who are there to protect you will most likely not be further support of you when you are dragged into H.R. for some “issue” that needs resolving.
  I am not making threats here, I have heard all of this from others with much more time in the company than myself and all I’m saying is, you better think long and hard about all the possible repurcussions of crossing a picket line. I’ve even heard of people getting their cars & homes vandalized from crossing picket lines.
  I’ve taken another job and with the $600/mo. for strike pay, I am doing just fine, so all anyone has to do is find temporary means to get by and quit snivelling about how you are struggling. Everyone knew the contract was going to be up in Sept. ‘08 well in advance, and whether you are a long term employee and have saved money to make it through the strike or a new employee (like myself) and have made arrangements for a cheaper way to live along with finding other employment (like I did), then everyone should be able to stand their ground in solidarity and be able to shout to Boeing, “We can hold our breath a LONG TIME!”
  Ever hear the expressin, “No Pain, No Gain”?
  Stand strong guys, so we can get what we have earned and fully deserve!
  Angel

• 31. Joe  |  October 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm

  I have no comment for the above remark- other than crossing the line isn’t worth the Penalties Working Relationships.
  I kind of had a laugh yesterday when I went to several Boeing Properties and saw just a few people picketting.
  Im for and believe me personally like Unions to a point, however there is a Balance of What you can and can’t get away with before you start just really having a negitive effect & the Overall sum of it all is really “just lost employment for many people. Granted the Remaining people make more however its really a hard thing to see because you can’t really see the cause and effects, Need a Crystal Ball. Then again look at the Number of people that are gone since 2000, however we really dont know how many people are casualties of Union Wages and Benefits and how many people would of been gone anyways. Myself Im sure glad to be making the 33.00 dollars per hour.

  The Union MUST have good Working Relationships with the people accoss the Table, this isn’t some battle that you go into and come out the other end a Winner. We want to Send in NEGOTIATORS- Anyone can Argue- doing this doesn’t get you anywhere, other than maybe 3 months off work, then again the Union Leadership that are supposed to: Argue?/Nogotiate aren’t exactly Monitarily suffering any penalties?

  Whats the Balancing Point? Straight up~! if I Was hiring people to make widgets for 30 dollars and hour and benefits and people making willing and able to make widgets is a plentiful resourse at 1/2- Mexico/China? much less pay… Well.. should I go further?- many probably are to busy thinking about china however really Mexico is probably Going to be wher you see most our Production jobs end up to at this point. You will see how this plays out in the years going forward. Many reasons why were headed to Mexico/South America, Location and Nafta Super Highway.

  Were very fortunate that We Only do have Airbus for competition & that the Barriers of entry into this Business are very steep.

  Some of the reasons we are deeply rooted here is that Seattle areas Ports/Airports and Seattle overall is Globally positioned well. Politically they have deep roots as well. Also Boeing has huge Real estate holdings and lots of machinery/industrial setup… They Have A Business System here that works.

  If we do have Something of the Magnitude of a Depression type senario coming up–Woow many things will be changing, who knows what things would be looking like? maybe Even the Union Jacket Guys would be looking for other employment.

  As we speak this Credit/Banking/Finance problem is now attacking Europe. What the world look like with Credit Financing? Well it Might be A world without Strikes~!! hahaha.. Myself I would like to Occcassionally have a Strike and Spend a Little more time Barking- especially when the Current Problems are Not Going to BE MISSING ANYONES Doorstep. These problems should of been something the Union Leadership should of Know A Lot More About- since it is there Job To properly Access the Economics of EVERYTHING~!! Not just how big the Order Books are today.

• 32. Joe  |  October 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm

  Enough of This Brothers and Sisters..Thing- By the Way is any of these Brothers and Sisters going to pay your bills.

  Heres A interesting Article:

  Last fall, I opined that the market could go down 50%, that is, below 7000 on the Dow. Now that we’ve moved meaningfully toward that figure, I’m more convinced than ever that it will be reached. That’s because a number of stocks in the Dow are already well below my earlier target levels. That means that the other stocks will have to fall less than originally anticipated to bring the aggregate to the target.
  ADVERTISEMENT

  The 6600 I hypothesized last fall was based on the so-called investment value, which is equal to book value plus 10 times dividends. This can be said to be the “bond value” of stocks; the rest is like a call option based on growth prospects. The U.S. stock market has sold at a premium to bond value for such an extended period of time — basically since the 1991 Persian Gulf War victory — that most people now under the age of say, 45, can’t remember a market that didn’t sell at a premium to bond value. But at market bottoms, the Dow goes to half of bond value. These include times like 1932 (which predates me), and 1974 (of which I have a strong and painful recollection, because of a personal “recession” that coincided with the national recession). It’s possible, though not probable, that the Dow will get to one-half of investment value, that is 3300-3500.

  The individual Dow 30 stocks are as illustrative as any. Last fall’s prices, (P1), recent prices (P2), and last fall’s investment values (IV) are in parentheses in the format (P1, P2, IV). I have omitted AIG , Altria and Honeywell , because they were kicked out of the Dow, but have not included their replacements, Bank of America , Chevron and Kraft . When I predict about a one-third further drop in the Dow, it is based on a belief that just over half of the remaining 27 stocks collectively have the potential to decline about 50%, while the other half has a collective potential downside of less than 20%.

  Alcoa ($37.44, $21.38, $26.00): It has gone below investment value. It can’t go down much further … or could it?

  American Express ($57.11, $32.55, $15.00): As I said last October, despite being “the ‘pick’ in the credit space … collapsing credit is the fundamental economic issue of our time.” American Express was not spared.

  AT&T ($41.95, $27.75, $32.00): Fell below investment value. A good pick for a forced choice.

  Boeing ($93.90, $55.46, $21.75): Started downward, as predicted, but only about halfway to a bottom.

  (NOTE: Any of YOU Brothers and Sisters had placed your bets somewhere else than Your normal V.I.P. Choices of Index Funds? many here probably don’t even know how to access your accounts without the Total Access within your fingertips. Many on strike are loosing not only lost wages but future retirement.

• 33. Joe  |  October 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 pm

  Markets are indeed the Currency of many companies- funny how even now on I see acticles about warding off the Recession. Articles for the Sheep-can we say Baaaww.

  The Mathmaticians Used such complex formulas do you really think McCain with Carabooo Killing Barbie/Obama is in any position to figure it out? Are we? you think those mathmaticians that used there complex formulas can figure anything out beyond the Formala they put in place that probably doesn’t really account for the true human aspect. They have just gotten so complex there isn’t really any way they or anyone else can sort/figure it out. There are many causes and effects. Its like a Slow moving Domino effect.

  Maybe it doesn’t matter much those savings might not be worth very much in the future. Maybe better to spend those savings today while they are still worth something.

  You people here actually feel this time is like past downturns? sound off~!!

  Have a friend with P.H.D. economics Senior Vice President of financial company- he said prepare for worse. So far were doing a pretty lousy job as a group.

• 34. Joe  |  October 7th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

  Aerospace parts factory leaving Pryor

  By DENVER NICKS AND RHETT MORGAN World Staff Writers
  10/7/2008
  Last Modified: 10/7/2008 2:20 AM

  The closure, to be completed next year, will cost 485 jobs.

  PRYOR — Shock waves reverberated throughout this community Monday after Labinal Inc. announced that it would close its factory in 2009.

  The factory employs 485 people in the Mid-America Industrial Park in Pryor, which has a population of nearly 10,000. The factory builds wiring harnesses for the aerospace industry.

  “It’s been a good plant, they’ve hired a lot of people,” said Don Siever of Pryor. “We’ve all got friends or relatives that work out there, just about.”

  Employees at other local businesses expressed concern over the news.

  “That’s going to affect us; I mean that’s a lot of people,” said Tim Hill, an employee at the Dollar Store in Pryor.

  Labinal said in a news release Monday that executives of the Corinth, Texas, company told Pryor employees that they are assured jobs for the next 60 days.

  Labinal has offered incentive packages to encourage employees to stay until the factory formally closes, the release said. It has established a career center on the grounds to provide resources to laid-off employees.

  Labinal Chairman and CEO Norman Jordan said Monday at a press conference at the factory, “This decision was a business necessity but has absolutely nothing to do with the people we have at this plant.”

  He said the closure was unrelated to a strike by Boeing Co. employees but noted that all Labinal operations have been affected by the strike and current economic conditions.

  He said that many jobs at the factory were lost when the airline industry took a hit after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist strike but that its employment had rebounded during the past several years.

  “We had every intention and made every effort trying to turn the plant back into what we had hoped it would be all along, a sustainable business enterprise. It just happened that we weren’t able to do that,” Jordan said.

  Work from Pryor will go to Labinal’s factories in Corinth, Texas, and Chihuahua, Mexico.

  Jordan said the company had not determined how many jobs will go to each site but that a majority would go to Mexico.

  Mayor Jimmy Tramel was disappointed by the announcement, but he said he believed that the city will rebound.

  “It’s a shock, but we’ll get through it,” he said. “We’re a diverse community and we’ve got great infrastructure.”

  “The bottom line is, we’ll help the employees as much as we can out there. They are our family,” he said.

  “We’re here to help and support those who’ve lost their jobs,” he said.

  However, his office has no plans to take any specific action in support of those affected by the closure, he said.

  Labinal’s bombshell comes just four months after Georgia-Pacific announced that it was shutting down the paper plant it had operated in Pryor for 44 years.

  That move affected more than 100 jobs.

  “You don’t like it but look at the world economy,” Tramel said. “Look at the airline industry. Look at the housing industry. It’s rough.

  “Nobody is absolutely sure they will have a job tomorrow. You do what you can and help those who do lose their jobs.”

  The Mid-America Industrial Park lured Google Inc. to its 9,000 acres in 2007.

  Officials of the park said in March that they would spend $1.3 million to construct two 30,000-square-foot “spec” buildings to try to attract businesses.

  “Sales tax is up,” Tramel said. “We’re making it. People seem to be out there shopping and doing some other things. But this will slow it down some.”

  No Labinal employees were made available at the press conference, and Labinal declined to allow a Tulsa World reporter onto the factory’s premises.

• 35. Joe  |  October 7th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

  MEXICO- Is the BIG word, China is Just a term that everyones throwing arround now.. however Mexico is going to be whats many are goiing to be seeing on the bottom of many of the items- 5 years from now…China China Mexico - Get my drift….

  To give you an idea of just how AFFORDABLE Mexican labor is: the Mexican Social Security Institute showed that the average wage in June 2007 was MX$209 per day (about $17 USD), but the minimum wage is about a quarter of that. That’s a full day’s work in Mexico for less than the cost of one man-hour in the u.s. The american worker has priced himself out of the market. Now they dont get any Unemployment Medical Retirement Pension etc.

  This is where the Executives get to carve up the whole pie for themselves..

• 36. Joe  |  October 10th, 2008 at 3:40 am

  Ford on the Rocks now?… its being treated like its going out of Business, Rumors Cash flow problems, Might go under?

  FORD MOTOR CO(NYSE: F)
  After Hours: 2.27 0.19 (9.13%)

• 37. Joe  |  October 10th, 2008 at 3:45 am

  Personally I think possibly was Planned Strike by the Union and Company.

  Im thinking the Penalties on late deliveries and time to get things somewhat ironed out with the 787 Was the motivation…only speculation, thing is if it is- how would you actually prove otherwise. How do we really know of the real motivations? With sound proof backing us up..

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