55 Comments Add your own

• 1. Chris Wallace  |  August 26th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

  Both the IAM and SPEEA have the upper-hand this round and they know it. Boeing management cannot afford any type of labor action and, frankly, even meeting every single demand that IAM and SPEEA want will be far less expensive over three years then even three weeks of labor action - and the repercussions of three years of more labor strife.

• 2. Mike  |  August 26th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

  I find it incredible that Boeing has found itself in this position. It seems but one more event inappropriately planned for along with others specific to the 787 development and production.

  I agree with Chris above, the unions have the upper hand here and I don’t know how Boeing are going to get past this without conceeding.

• 3. Chris Wallace  |  August 26th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

  Well Randy just posted the new Boeing offer to the IAM and it addresses some of the biggest concerns they had - no 401k-only option for new hires, improved seniority call-back times for laid-off employees and improvements to the no-fee medical plan.

  Hopefully this will allow the IAM to stop jaw-boning and start discussing.

• 4. Falcon  |  August 26th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  Why didn’t they start negotiation 3 or even 6 months ago? Surely it would be better to hack things out as much as possible before the strike card becomes available.

• 5. Rob  |  August 27th, 2008 at 1:25 am

  Boeing call Force Majeure, blame the Unions for everything and send clients off to sue them senseless.

  This is actually a positive for Boeing, they can be seen to take decisive action and then they can blame everything on someone else rather than take the blame themselves.

• 6. Kristine McDonell  |  August 27th, 2008 at 2:51 am

  Perhaps boeing should consider extending this contract from 3 years to 4yr.s or even 5. Enough of this nonsense. Let us all put our focus where it belongs, doing what we do best BUILDING WORLD CLASS AIRPALNES right here at home!!

• 7. Jacobin777  |  August 27th, 2008 at 3:23 am

  Unfortunately, the unions have the upper hand, but many contract provisions state that strike by workers or “acts of god” are sometimes not added to the compensation package for a particular carrier..just a thought.

  That being said, the unions will win this round…Boeing needs to get its planes out as quickly as possible.

• 8. GREG COOK  |  August 27th, 2008 at 3:39 am

  I EARN 12.68 AN HOUR WHICH IS A SUB-STANDARD WAGE IN MY BOOK. THE WORST PART OF IT IS, IT TAKES SIX YEARS BEFORE I WILL REACH THE MAXIMUM FOR MY GRADE LEVEL. I GET ONE DOLLAR A YEAR IN WAGE INCREASE UNTIL I HIT MY SIXTH YEAR IN WHICH I WILL FINALLY MAX OUT, IF I DON’T GET LAID OFF BEFORE THAT, NOT MUCH TO RAISE A FAMILY AND TRY TO OWN A HOUSE WITH. I DON’T EXPECT TOP WAGE RIGHT AWAY BUT SIX YEARS IS WAY OUT OF LINE. I WOULD LIKE TO WORK FOR BOEING FOR A LONG TIME BUT I DON’T KNOW HOW LONG I CAN LAST WITH THESE LOW WAGES.

• 9. Ron  |  August 27th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

  What really needs to happen is, Boeing and the Union need to be a family, not just say it when it’s convenient.
  It takes everyone here to make things happen for Boeing. Being #1 comes at a price. We have earned more than what we are asking for. We all should be paid according to being #1. (Leader in the Universe).

  We should have the best of everything.
  We should have the best Retirement, Medical, Dental, Eye Care, Wages, Vacation, Sick Leave, Ect, ect. In order to having the best aviation in the world.
  We can build them faster, cheaper, better.
  Talk is cheap, give like you care for your family.

• 10. Jillian  |  August 27th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

  I think that we employees should start thinking of the company and what is actually happening here. If we slide schedules, we’ll lose customers which means layoffs. We make very good money for what we do here. Most of us do not have a college education and get wonderful benefits. That is the problem with the USA workforce, want more, expect more and do less. That is why so many US corporations are failing and the fact that the leadership (not the managers) get most of the money in there outragous bonuses. It is both sad, scary and it’s called greed.

• 11. Skip Bucklin  |  August 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

  I cannot accept the cost of living formula on the 2nd offer at this rate there will be no cost of living buy next contract. I do not like the incentive plan. And I do not see anything in there that leads or A mechanic retain there rate of Pay.

• 12. Kevin  |  August 27th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

  For a answer to Falcon, They did start with the negotiations early. They (Boeing-IAM) started in the end of April early May time frame. Pretty bad when it comes down to the wire everytime even when they started as early did.

• 13. De De  |  August 27th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

  I don’t hear anything about Vacation and sick leave either, this has not been renewed in 50 years or more! this is on the table.
  meeting every single demand that IAM and SPEEA want will be far less expensive over three years then even three weeks of labor action - and the repercussions of three years of more labor strife.
  Boeings offers are weak they just think by putting out bate we are going to be stupid enough to take it, no respect of IAM. I would hope IAM members would not bite.

• 14. Dave  |  August 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

  They haven’t even match the VIP to what Speea got last contract. They get .75 cent for each dollar
  They are only offering the IAM .50 cents per dollar.
  What about being able to retire with so much time and age or at the least allow full retirement at the age of 55 or 20 years service.
  Most all government or military gives you a full retirement after 20 years of service.
  With the cost of living and gas prices to get to and from work. Their not even close on their wage increase offer.

• 15. carl  |  August 27th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

  How can anyone work for less than $20.00 per hour and support a family, drive a decent car good enough to get you into work everyday, pay insurance.
  Gas has doubled, food is up 37% with more increase to come.
  Not a single penny for retirement comes out of the sale of an airplane because the size of the fund is so huge that the intrust alone more than matches what the Company should be putting in. Workers could be paid $140. per year of service and the fund would still grow.
  Boeing is not bargaining in good faith. By stopping retirement for new hires, and in 30 years all the retiree’s will be dead, they can pocket the fund and split it amoung themselves. 800% profit increase and they still can’t take care of those who are making it happen. They should be ashamed. Corporate has cost this Company billions and the last two CEO’s were fired. How much will this strike cost the Company and will the current CEO be fired for this 5 billion dollar blunder?

• 16. Steve  |  August 27th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

  I just love tuning on the news and hearing the average Boeing machinist makes about $27 per hour. I think its really sad that Boeing has office administrators (secretaries) that make $36-$40 per hour and are almost guaranteed to get a minimum of 2% per year raises. This same person also get 2 weeks of sick leave compared to my 1 week. Keep in mind this person never touches an airplane or even a airplane part. Hmmm… what does the average microsoft worker or county employee make?

• 17. Stephen  |  August 27th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

  Jillian has a good point I have to wonder how old she is. I have worked for Boeing for 30 years and have 5 more to go if I retire at 55 but the penalty I would incure is not worth leaving at 55 so I guess I need to stay till 62 and be some dead weight to the company. Yes we do make a good wage for us senior employees but we need to all stick together. I have gone on strike for less and it is time for Boeing to read the writing on the wall, increase the pention 85 a year and get rid of the penalty for retiring@ 55, increase the wage of the newhires, leave the benifits alone. See you on the picket line. Remember REJECT& AFFIRM STRIKE VOTE.

• 18. Tom  |  August 27th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

  I see no help to the middle class of Boeing, the new hires get a pay raise and the retirement group get a
  bonus. Nothing has been offered to the “average joe”.
  I feel the bonus was a insult to the middle group and wage increase is poor. Why should a new hire get a large wage increase instantly and the middle class get nothing. I am my second time back at Boeing and see no help from the Union for us. Also we pay the Union to work for us, what do we get?

• 19. Jessica  |  August 27th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

  This is for #10
  Jillian, Are you by chance a Manager for Boeing that wants to puts the hourly 751 IAM members is a bad light. I think so because if you were on the factory floor you would not think as you do.

• 20. whitey  |  August 27th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

  Its our time! Time to break out the BBQs and sit outside the offices and let them see how us who are tired of the B.S offers they have force fed us for the last 20 years.Everyone at Boeing in Everett look for My big BBQ rolling around to picket stations,We will be pulling down burgers and brauts.. Shoot Me an E-mail for the times and place.. Stick it out We all have something to loose if they divide us!!

• 21. Dave  |  August 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

  Boy if Boeing get the IAM to accept this contract with less the $100 retirement and .75 Cent per dollar up to 15 % on the VIP this go around
  They’ll be celebrating with their big bonuses as usual.
  If it happens Mark my words you’ll be hearing about their bonuses directly following.
  they should up our vacation too. In Europe they get up to 3 months vacation a year. our max is about 4 weeks.

• 22. Chuck  |  August 27th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

  Jillian, Jillian, Jillian. Get a clue. The greed resides in corporate america not with the employees that make corporations great. Employees here at Boeing and all over America are desperately trying to maintain their middle class status while greedy companies look to move our jobs overseas in an effort to balloon their bottom lines. At the same time they attempt to convince you and I that we are the greedy ones, we who just want a descent standard of living so we can provide for our families and ensure that we have the resources to retire one day without becomeing a burden to our children and society. There is a war going on Jillian. It’s a war against the middle class. It’s a struggle being waged between those who have and want more and those who only want a descent standard of living. Who will you fight for?

• 23. Dave  |  August 27th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

  Right on Chuck!
  Say it the way it really is.
  Julian ether your a well off Corporate Manager or someone really has you brain washed.
  Wake up Man.

• 24. Daryl  |  August 27th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

  We will strike, and we are not jaw boning.

  They will pay us what we want, becuase during a down turn they will take what they want. they did it to us before, and we still have that bitter taste in our mouths from the last couple of contracts where Boeing has just taken our benefits away.

  They taught us how to play this game

• 25. Steve Bloom  |  August 27th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

  Corporations make record profits.
  Huge backorders ensure corporate profits for years to come.
  Workers, “Airplane Builders” struggle to make house payments and stay even in times when the dollar buys less and less.

  It’s time for the corporation to share the wealth with the workers who work so hard.
  It’s time for the corporation to share the wealth with the workers who have made all the LEAN improvements to make the production system what it is today.
  Boeing is -the- benchmark in airplane production. We are a world leader in manufacturing. We, the workers, are the boeing company.
  We are only asking for our fair share of the profits. And with that, comes a promise to continue to be the worlds greatest airplane builders.

  Steve Bloom
  IAM 751

• 26. Scott  |  August 28th, 2008 at 3:23 am

  Thanks Steve Bloom. You could not have said any better. With a world class company it takes world class employees does it not? With a 13 billion dollar profit within the past few years, show your employees some appreciation. Enough said.

• 27. Robert  |  August 28th, 2008 at 3:29 am

  I am surprised at the people who think that what Boeing is offering right now is good.
  A grade 3 barely qualifies for middle class right now and that won;t last long as inflation sucks the life out of us. If I were to retire in 5 years I wouldn’t make enough to keep my home. My mortgage is only 1580 a month and after taxes I won;t be able to cover it. My wife and I are not big spenders and don;t have any other debt but I can’t afford to retire. Boeing needs to raise the retirement to at least $110. Because it is darn sure we won’t get anything more out of them in the future.
  They should also match our vip to Speea’s. We produce the plane, all the engineers in the world aren’t going to accomplish that. Why is it, after 22 years of service I get less than 4 weeks of vacation. the company can definitely do without me for a few more weeks a year than that. The medical is a give with one hand and take with the other. If you are on traditional and need a medium amount of medical during the year, you are paying and might be paying more than with the selections plan. Read more than the first line. One medical emergency can put you in the hole.
  We should expect our .40 cent cola without them making it seem as if they are giving us an increase that isn’t due us according to last contract.
  Isn’t it funny how easy it is for Boeing to make us the bad guy and greedy and people believe it? But it is our time to go all out for what we can get. The company won’t suffer and we will never be in this position again.

• 28. ARBE  |  August 28th, 2008 at 5:04 am

  How to layoff employees for fun and profit.

  few realize that Boeing Commercial makes money on the layoffs of the 10 to 20 year people.

  or that the ‘ surplus’ in the pension fund can be put into OPERATING EARNINGS

  FOR EXAMPLE

  THE STORY OF JOE LUNCHPAIL

  How to layoff workers for fun and vapor profits in operating earnings

  The story of Joe LunchPail

  Joe Lunchpail was hired in 1980 at $25K year

  And was laid off in 1990

  The attached chart shows how Boeing makes money on those who leave
  before 20 years or so

  Service time rounded and values are end of year

• 29. Donna  |  August 28th, 2008 at 8:32 am

  When I came to work for Boeing in 1979, I had been making $4.00 per hr at my former job. I left that job because Boeing’s beginning pay was $7.30 an hr. A single mother could afford day care, housing, gasoline, food and clothing, and still have something to put into savings. To have medical & dental plans was amazing. Wages increased often. The harder you worked, the more they noticed, and the employee was well rewarded.

  Back then, Boeing did not have profits of billions of dollars. The orders came in, the planes were built on time. The planes were perfect before leaving the plants. Very few complaints. Customers knew they were purchasing the best planes in the world. Everyone was happy.

  Now, never before in Boeing’s history have there been so many planes ordered, and so many left to be built. These delays are not due to the EMPLOYEES, but from the wealthy CEO’s. They rolled out an empty shell of an 787 and called it good.

  They want to blame it on the shops, but in reality, since Boeing has decided to offload so much to other countries, the shoddy work comes back to be fixed/repaired/re-tooled by whom? The dedicated, loyal Boeing employees.

  Cheap labor. They get what they pay for.
  Twice the cost? More than that.

  The offload “piece of the pie” theory:

  Thank you for ordering pies from us. Here’s the pie pan, we’ll deliver it to you, you mix the ingredients, according to our recipe, then you deliver it back to us. If the recipe is wrong, we’ll fix it, cut slits in it, bake it, box it up, then deliver it back to you.
  You buy it from us, sell it to your customers, they eat & enjoy it, and order more pies from you. You order more pies from us. All the while the recipe is still wrong. We cannot tell you, because you may be offended and will not buy pies from us anymore.

  The cycle begins anew.

  Are the airline companies purchasing quality planes? Can the passengers rely on safe travel? The airline companies have reputations & high standards. Safe travel is their first obligation. Without passengers, there is no air travel. If those passengers cannot rely on those airlines, they will not purchase tickets. Driving the airlines to bankruptcy. Which we have seen happen in recent years. Those bankrupt airlines cannot order any more planes.

  Basic economics. Even a child could figure this out.

  Boeing CEO’s in all their inept wisdom have put EVERYONE in harm’s way to save a few dollars. To pocket the profits.
  Is Boeing really willing to sacrifice their reputation as the world’s finest airline company?

  Boeing employees come in to work every day, and work very hard to meet the high standards and thorough inspections that the company expects from them. Yet, one hour late to work, they receive an infraction. Three infractions in a row, you get fired.
  These employees have high expectations and living standards too… that the Boeing Co. of 2008 cannot, will not, meet even halfway.

  The last strike of 2005 cost them $1.3 billion - what did they save? Boeing complains they cannot find experienced skilled workers, engineers, technicians, etc. to come work for them. Have they figured out why?

  The 1980’s Boeing Co. sure was a great place to work.

• 30. mike j a 777QA  |  August 28th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

  Very good messages so far, except Jillian (poor girl doesn’t get it I think)…

  I wish that Boeing would STOP PUBLISHING THEIR OFFERS to newspapers and radio ads and to the Boieng News etc, trying to make us look greedy, because JILLIAN, we ARE NOT GREEDY!!! We just want the decent-average living that we deserve from what we do.
  (in 1996, $14 per hour, I was a rich man… in 2008 $14 per hour just don’t cut it… $23 per hour now is almost eqivalent to 1996 money)

  I think the IAM Union should publish Doug Kights salary and all the negotiating he went through to before he would EVEN accept the position of Boeing’s Chief Negotiator…

  (for Jillian) Those of us who DO work on the airplanes go through all manner of hardships and hazzards, and are forced to work miracles that the newspapers and radio ads and Boeing News has NO CLUE about, and many of the really important jobs take a LOT of education and on-the-job training. It takes years to groove a “hack” of a mechanic into a “skilled” machinist… (I’m a QA, and I’ve seen ‘em all !!!)

  But then, having said that, there are quite a few workers, who I’ve had the displeasure of ‘having-to’ work with, who are total loosers and aren’t worth one dime, and are parasites to OUR cause probably… that is ONE issue the IAM Union seems to never address– how to get rid of the “dead-weights” and the union only seems to always save the dead-weight’s job over the good-worker’s who DO their jobs… so I will concede that Jillian does have a point, sort of, but just doesn’t roll right…

  Having said that, when I started reaching a certain wage-level, I myself started to feel rather humbled, and it actually made me decide to work even harder and better than before, and I’ve seen this in most others too when they get to a certain wage-level, even the hackers…

  And then there is Boeing “Leadership” trying to only pay a barely livable wage for all the ’stuff’ they expect us to do ?… wow. where’s their Ethical Standards now ?

  I read one of the Boeing Ethics Codes which says “…fairness and integrity in all deallings…” if Boeing was “fair and integrity in all dealings” then we wouldn’t need a Union…

  well Boeing, time to pay up !!!

• 31. Lee  |  August 28th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

  Negotiations WERE started a long time ago, but Boeing wasn’t interested in any real work at the table. Typical wasted time. Unless Boeing takes our concerns seriouly, there will be a strike. It is simply inconcievable that top level executives are getting paid more in one year to, make so many poor decisions, than I’ll make in 30 years to bust my butt doing forced overtime to try and get their product built on a rediculous schedule with late part delivery. Every day, I step up to the plate to do what I can to make Boeing profitable. Now it is time for Boeing to step up to the plate and recognize my worth. It’s not greed, it fair.

• 32. Stephen member of the 69 club I.W.N.S.  |  August 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

  I just hope that our membership does not cave in like we have in the past. Let get a GREAT contract this time. Ive been on strike for 69 days, 48 days , and 29 days. It’s time we stay out until we get a contract we can be proud of for all of our families and coworkers.
  Subject: $4000 per year of service? Yup, if you’re an exec.

  Check the figures here: The exec making $300,000 is getting $400 per year of service ($192,000 for 40 years), the exec making $3,000,000 gets $4,000 per year of service ($1,920,000 for 40 years) Kight thinks $78 is too high for the worker building the plane? LOL even though it’s not really funny…
  The following table shows the estimated annual pension benefits payable to an executive officer, assuming retirement on January 1, 2006, at age 65 after selected periods of service. Total pension benefits for executive officers are determined under the Company’s Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (the “SERP”), which is a non-qualified defined benefit plan. A portion of that benefit will be paid under the Company’s Pension Value Plan, which is a qualified defined benefit plan whose benefits are limited by applicable federal tax laws and regulations. The remainder of the benefit will be paid under the SERP. Retired executives’ tax-qualified benefits are pre-funded and are paid out of the assets of the qualified plan; however, non-qualified benefits are not pre-funded and are paid out of the Company’s general assets. The benefits shown in the table are based on straight-life annuity amounts. The plans also permit selection of a joint and survivor annuity with reductions in the benefits shown. The benefits shown in the table are not subject to any deduction for Social Security benefits.

  Years of Credited Service

  Remuneration

  15

  20

  25

  30

  35

  40

  $300,000

  $72,000

  $96,000

  $120,000

  $144,000

  $168,000

  $192,000

  600,000

  144,000

  192,000

  240,000

  288,000

  336,000

  384,000

  900,000

  216,000

  288,000

  360,000

  432,000

  504,000

  576,000

  1,200,000

  288,000

  384,000

  480,000

  576,000

  672,000

  768,000

  1,500,000

  360,000

  480,000

  600,000

  720,000

  840,000

  960,000

  1,800,000

  432,000

  576,000

  720,000

  864,000

  1,108,000

  1,152,000

  2,100,000

  504,000

  672,000

  840,000

  1,008,000

  1,176,000

  1,344,000

  2,400,000

  576,000

  768,000

  960,000

  1,152,000

  1,344,000

  1,536,000

  2,700,000

  648,000

  864,000

  1,080,000

  1,296,000

  1,512,000

  1,728,000

  3,000,000

  720,000

  960,000

  1,200,000

  1,440,000

  1,680,000

  1,920,000

• 33. keith  |  August 28th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

  Boeing has had the last 50 years to fix the hourly pension, here we are again in a hostile fight to keep up in our retirement with the cost of living. Wouldnt it be a better business plan to fix the problem and move on? I guess that’s just “Shop Math”. in unity

• 34. Chris Wallace  |  August 28th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

  mike j a 777QA noted on August 28th, 2008 at 12:05 pm:

  > I wish that Boeing would STOP PUBLISHING
  > THEIR OFFERS to newspapers and radio ads
  > and to the Boeing News etc…

  It sounds like Boeing is hoping for a repeat of 2002, when a majority of the IAM rejected the contract, but then failed to authorize a strike which resulted in the contract taking effect.

  Frankly, it’s a dangerous game Boeing is playing.

  2008 is looking a lot like 1998 when Boeing was trying to dig itself out of a huge production snafu. They offered a generous contract in 1999 that was ratified by an 89% majority and Boeing went on to deliver 620 planes that year.

  If Boeing’s gamble doesn’t pay off, and the IAM authorizes a strike, Boeing had better immediately offer a major pay and benefit increase to get IAM management to forgo authorizing a strike action for 30-days while the two sides work it out and come to an agreement.

  Boeing has delivered about two dozen more planes YTD this year then last, so if things continue, they should be able to get close to 500. But if they compel the IAM to strike, every month off is some 40 planes that are not being delivered. And while 70% of those will be 737s, the other 30% are higher-value widebodes. And taken together, at current average discounts, that is anywhere from $4-5 billion in revenue that will be deferred each and every month.

• 35. Karen McCloskey  |  August 28th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

  Jillian
  I think you are missing the point , Some of us really do work hard , you may not think so but we do. Most of us think we deserve more money ,an a bonus . We are the ones that have gotten the work out so they can look good so why not give us some of the money and the benefits .
  We must STAND STRONG ,work to gether because ITS OUR TIME THIS TIME

• 36. Theresa  |  August 28th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

  STRIKE!STRIKE!STRIKE!
  GET REAL THIS IS NOT A GOOD CONTRACT. BOEING MADE A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE JUST WANT A PIECE OF THE PIE!

• 37. ARBE  |  August 28th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

  One of the reasons Boeing did not contribute to pensions from 2000 to 2003 had to do with the bizzare accounting methods which can be used

  A- generally they cannot fund over 150% of benefits and still get a tax exemption
  B- they get to define ’surplus ‘ based on ESTIMATED income for the year, not actual
  C- for the year 2003, their actual return on pension investments was 17 percent
  ( source annual report for 2003, page 30 )

  I suggest IAM also publicize the following figures taken from annual reports of pension ‘earnings’ that were put into OPERATING EARNINGS, which help to boost executive pay and perks

  2001 report page 43
  Ref to note 20 -
  2000 = 403 M
  2001 = 785 M

  2002 report page 41 . . . as indicated in note 16 . . .
  2002 = 537 M
  2003 = 147 M

  In 2004, 5, and 6 expense was 335 million, 1,225 million, and 746 million

  Also note in general that when BA lays of people in the military side- they eventually have to pay back the ‘ surplus ‘ of benefits that will accure until those people reach retirement

  But in the case of commercial - when they lay off joe lunchpail with say 10 years of service, the amount deposited on his behalf in the fund gets to accrue interest without any withdrawal until he draws his first retirement check . Those earnings are considerable

  IOW Boeing makes and has made Billions in the fund on that basis - see for example the other comments on the annual report pages listed

  +++++

  And lets not forget this flyer handed out Sunday

  http://tinyurl.com/3hmzyh side one
  http://tinyurl.com/3r67×3 side two

• 38. Ton  |  August 29th, 2008 at 4:29 am

  The latest offer looks like good deal, just not a great deal. I think greed from both Boeing mngmt and the union will eventually tear this company apart. Ten years from now we won’t be flying in Boeing or Airbus widebodys. Probably Sichuan Chengfa Aero Co widebodys.

• 39. allen  |  August 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

  5% GWI for the first year, that means for the last 4 years and this year, you get 1 % a year. sounds pretty good to me. wheres the problem

• 40. Chuck  |  August 29th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

  Just completed the march through the factory. What a great turnout! It’s a wondreful thing to see people, no different from myself, come together in solidarity to take a stand for each other in our struggle to maintain a descent standard of living so that we may provide for our families and secure a level of retirement that frees us from becoming a burden to our children and society. Stay strong, united and know that we are fighting the good fight, along with millions of americans across this country, for ourselves, our children and the future of the working class and this great country of ours!
  God bless us all.
  Yours in solidarity!

• 41. Bill  |  August 29th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

  Why is it always the same issues? Seems like Boeing
  would want to make those of us that build the airplanes
  partners and share in the profits that we’re accountable for but no all they want to do is ship our work off to their Global partners and have us fix it when it comes in not per dwg or spec.
  I don’t think there’s enough time left for Boeing to present us with anything that is even close to acceptable!

• 42. Tom  |  August 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

  Dear IAM members,

  Please come back and let us know how the strike worked out for you. Will you hold out for meaningful changes or will it be it be like last time. Juggle the numbers around and end up with basically the same contract? Best wishes and enjoy your time off.

• 43. mike j a 777QA  |  August 31st, 2008 at 7:10 am

  Well, looks like a strike for sure to me…

  When we (IAM) said, since a year ago, “NO TAKE-AWAYS” we meant what we said, and for those who can’t understand that it means “same as last time or better” which so far is at about half of the last time (2006)… Boeing tries to say it is “oustanding” yet all the increases on the pay-side are then took away on the increases on the deductions-side… and the Final Offer has all sorts of tricky wording in the fine-print which sneaks things away (I’ve combed the entire contract) Boeing is playing their typical sly dealings game, while publicly telling everybody that it is great when it really isn’t… kinda like the 787 program (Oh, did I say that?)… I truely hope that Boeing doesn’t become another ENRON, yet they play business the same way…

  Boeing had an entire YEAR to think-over this Contract 2008, and if this is the best they can come up with, means they have their heads up their you-know-whats… this one saga parallels the 787 Program, where Ithnk it was anounced in late 2001, just after 9-11, and yet with all the planning and all the brainstorming and all the persons with their fancy degrees (”all the kings horses and all the kings men”sort of like)… and THIS is where we are?

  … keep in-mind that NONE of the higher-ups would listen to anything sensible from lower-levels (like us hourly)… the 787 Program likely would’ve been a lot further along had they listened, oh well… 787 Program is coming along, barely…

  Something else, before the Merger in 1997 with McDonnell-Doglass, Boeing used to focus on their Products and Services (ie: Quality, Quality, Quality) and let the profits follow along as a natural consequece), after the Merger the focus has ONLY gone to Profits, Profits, Profits, and now the Quality is more and more becoming “overhead expense”, and I see this more and more as they try to cut-corners, I mean cut-dollars… when the Merger happened, the Board of McDonnell (or maybe even Harry Stonecypher the CEO) owned majority of the stocks of Boeing (I think 2/3 or more of the controlling interests) thus the real Boeing actually really experienced a hostile-takeover in 1997-1998 and the real Boeing has been almost dead ever since… since then it has only become a Profits-Game and us hourly IAM are their pawns…

  …so they think…

  Boeing’s BAFO (Best And Final Offer) is only about 1/2 of what we said was our minimum, and it is full of take-aways… and that is that…
  and our minimum wasn’t enormously outrageous, just what we earned for them…

  I think their BAFO is a cross between Baffle and Buffalo, because after an ENTIRE YEAR to plan this (Contract 2008), baffled and buffalo-ed is how we all feel about it…

  oh well… STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE !!!

• 44. Angelena  |  August 31st, 2008 at 11:19 pm

  I will have one year at Boeing in Nov. of this year and make $13.59/hr.
  So, let’s see here:
  Boeing profits for last 5-years is UP 828%.
  The average pay for a boeing worker continually falls downward every year.
  Corporate Exec’s make more and more, while us production workers sweat our butts off and make less and less.
  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where this is headed!
  I am single and living in an apt. on Casino Rd. (most know this is a fairly cheap place to live) and while my rent was $510/mo. just 4 years ago, the current price on my 1 bdrm. apt. is $889/mo.
  I pay for rent, all my utilities, food (which is up 37%) and gas (which has doubled) and live paycheck to paycheck. I’ve even had to take payday loans just to keep a roof over my head and food in my stomach.
  Due to all these circumstances, I am moving out and am being forced into a “roommmate” situation for the first time since 1978!
  The state min. wage has increased $3.82 in the past 16 yrs. and all Boeing wants to give us is a mere $2.28 that only applies “after” GWI’s, COLA’s and PROGRESSION STEPS are calculated into the formula??
  What a joke!
  I hope all my Union brothers and sisters will stand strong in solidarity and make Boeing “see the light”!
  See you all on the Picket Line!!
  STRIKE!!!

• 45. Angelena  |  September 1st, 2008 at 12:03 am

  I’d like to elaborate a bit more on my comment:

  The state min. wage has increased $3.82 in the past 16 yrs. and all Boeing wants to give us is a mere $2.28 that only applies “after” GWI’s, COLA’s and PROGRESSION STEPS are calculated into the formula??

  While I myself might receive a “slight” increase on the entry level wage, I highly think it is unfair that I will be making the same amount as someone who has been there twice as long as me. How is that fair to them?
  If they are going to increase the min. & max. payscale, then I think it is only fair that the $2.28 should be added in FULL (not after minusing progression steps, COLA’s and GWI’s) to ALL Union members EQUALLY, no matter what their current place is on the progression step payscale.
  I mean, c’mon..
  Was this, along with a $2,500 ratification bonus, just a ploy to divide the membership in hopes that the 7,000 new hires would win them the vote on the “best & final offer*??
  Is that how they want to treat their long-term veteran employees, who have more than earned their “piece of the pie”??
  *coughs*

• 46. Stephen member of the 69 club I.W.N.S.  |  September 2nd, 2008 at 7:15 pm

  Angelena
  Thank you for your comment and glade to hear you are getting out of Casino road (too many druggies) bummer you have to get a room mate. March to the hall at lunch and see you on the picket line, down with BAFO and Corporate B.S. No on the contract yes to STRIKE!!!

• 47. Stephen member of the 69 club I.W.N.S.  |  September 4th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

  Dump Mark and Tom. The dedicated unionist are not dedicated to us and need to be voted out of office.

• 48. lgiles  |  September 4th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

  You union Jerks are the reason so many jobs/industry positions are being “sub-let” to other countries.

  If you worked for a good day, you would get a good days pay. Instead, you want more pay for less proffessionalism.

  As a result, the American people recieve a sub-standard product engineered by a “third-world-country”

  Out-soursed? Or Out-smarted?

  You decide what you want to be:

  A: Employed

  B: On unemployment

  C: A union pay suplement

  D: An idiot

• 49. Don  |  September 5th, 2008 at 12:02 am

  In response to Igiles….
  The reason us, union jerks, arose is because of the injustices done to us by the corporate jerks. Big businesses have only profits on their minds and a worker’s benefits and pay are part of the overall overhead that a business tries to elminate. Large corporations allow the upper management to look at everything as a number. It is a lot easier to layoff 10,000 employee numbers. Just a number eliminated to lower the overhead to increase the profit. Now try it with 10, 000 people; its harder and felt more personally. The unions naturally arose because the common worker’s voice wasn’t being heard over the grinding gears of the corporation. The union could shout and be heard,”hey, it is personal. We are people and we have families. We are not dirt. Give us our human rights and dencency back or you make no profit today. Give us what is right, fair, and decent and we will make you profitable and the #1 product in the world.” When it works, it is a great partnership but often the corporation’s narrow minded view of profits disrupts the partnership. A great example of the disparity of views can be found in the donations given to charities. An average Joe Lunchpail donates to his local charity because it makes him feel good to help and it is right and decent to do so. This donation is not very profitable for him. he gets a very small taxbreak compared to what he feels in the loss of the money. The corporation looking once again at profit, will only donate just enough to qualify for the taxbreak and to achieve a nice PR image. The taxbreak lowers overhead and thus increases profit. I guarantee that most corporations would never donate one cent to charities if there was no PR results or taxbreak from the action.

  We, the labor force of today, have many priviliges given to us thanks to our great-grandparents and those that followed who fought for all we have. When the corporate jerks, who didn’t want to be fair and only had profit on their minds, turned greedy and nasty, our fore-brothers and sisters stood their ground against intimidation, and physical and mental punishment. Even police and federal troops have been authorized to use lethal force against strikes in the past. They stood up for their rights as human beings and said we will not go quietly into the night and we will be heard even though they feared for themselves and their families. The unions fought the long battle to get labor laws enacted and continue to struggle against the corporate world to see that those same laws are upheld and improved. And yes, Igiles, those same unions and labor laws are the very things that granted you your nice salary job with it’s perks. The unions only want what is fair, right, and decent for all the workers even non-union members.
  The reason so many corporations have offloaded to third world countries is because they have found people who are easier to trample down. Most third world countries don’t have someone to stand up for them and many have governments who take bribes to turn the cheek. Places where human rights are granted as per the size of your wallet. We will never have a level playing field till world government forces the issue and/or the people themselves fight for their rights. When all the people of the world are treated fairly and decently, then you will see a level playing field. At that point, most corporations who have outsourced and off-loaded will return home, because the overhead will be hurting their profit margin then.
  When the union image has come across as greedy, biliigerent, and rude, it is because we are painted in this light by the same corporate jerks who we have fought against tooth and nail to remove the take-aways that they slip in the backdoor while proclaiming to hold out the olive branch. Boeing has taken out ads and spent huge sums of money on a PR campaign to tell the world that we are being given the world’s best offer but not once did they mention all the take-aways. All the take-aways cancel out the increase in the GWI and lump sum. The cola doesn’t even compete with 8 to 9% inflation that we face. So I’m faced with a net zero in improvement and this is their best offer to pay back the worker for the 13 billion profit. Bull@#$#! How is it that they say out of one mouth that this is the best offer that they can give and remain competitive yet out of the other they praise the executives and give them bonuses and more pay. When the economy is going up and down, the executives are only increasing their pay, and the average worker’s pay must be dependent on waves in the economy. Fair? Who’s being greedy, billigerent, arrogant now? Just give us all what is fair, right, and decent. This is a great year and the last six years have been wonderfully profitable for Boeing, don’t tell me this is best we can give and hand me a contract that is worth its weight in toliet paper. If we are truely struggling to remain competitive then every executive and salary person better be playing the take-away game too.
  My brothers and sisters, living paycheck to paycheck and deciding what we will pay next paycheck and not this paycheck is not living. Do I put gas in the car or buy groceries for the family? Do I go down to the foodbank because I didn’t get any overtime? If we’re not living we might as well be dying. STRIKE for the lives of your family and what is fair and decent.

• 50. Chuck  |  September 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

  Well said Don! Igiles, I just love it when guys like you jump on the bashing band wagon, berate us and call us names. I’ll bet a weeks pay you don’t have a clue what is really contained in Boeings final offer. The Devil is in the details my friend and if you haven’t read the proposition then you should keep your damn mouth shut. Funny how guys like you jump at the chance to critisize and bash us and talk tough like you know what your talking about when you probably haven’t even seen the contract. If you haven’t then you are speaking from a position of ignorance and have absolutely no right to engage in the debate. But what should we expect? If you don’t know what’s in the contract then you swallow the corporate speel, right? Also, if you want to be taken seriously, you really should learn to spell. And one more thing. If Boeing thinks we need to give them something back, we being the smallest portion of the entire cost of an airplane, maybe they should start taking a look at the outrageous bennies, bonuses and pay that their executives rake in and take something back from them too!

• 51. Angelena  |  September 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

  Well spoken, Don & Chuck.
  You took the words right out of my mouth there.
  It’s really too bad that Boeing portrayed a “screw in the back” as a “Bouquet of flowers in our hand” to the public via the media. Anyone with half a brain (which Igiles has proven he doesn’t have, by his words) would know there is always “2 sides” to any story. Boeing tells how much they “give” in this BAFO, but did they even once print to the public what they took away?? Hell no.
  Do they print what they give to their executives who merely sit on cushy chairs in air-conditined offices, while it is we who sweat our asses off inside those muggy airplanes?? Hell no.
  $522 Million to the ececutive Pension plan while they gave “$0″ to the “Machinists” for the year of 2007? What a joke..
  Sure Boeing, go ahead and make us look like greedy, whiny-assed babies, but our 80% vote on rejecting the contract and 87% to strike speaks for itself. Wake-up and smell the coffee all you non-Boeing critics! Do you really think 25,000 people are wrong?
  I’m sure you would be right here with us holding that Picket sign if you were a Machinist here yourself.
  And for all of you “whiners” who say you’d be happy to get what we do, keep this in mind:
  By our fighting to get what we deserve, we set the bar for others in low-paying jobs and working for minimum wage. When our wages go up, other companies will try to stay competitive and will result in them raising their wages for you all as well. Think about that.

• 52. Alex  |  September 8th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

  I am not in the IAM, but rather in SPEEA. I understand many of the complaints, but wonder why anyone would come to work at Boeing for $13.59 an hour? To live paycheck to paycheck? I wonder why anyone comes back to Boeing after being laid - once, twice, three times.
  Management makes a fortune on the backs of the workers? I suppose it seems that way when you see million dollar salaries and huge bonuses, but what can you do about that, other than envy? Put the company out of business to teach “them” a lesson? That will really help.
  As an engineer and former airline mechanic I am grateful for a job that pays me pretty good money. Would I like to make more? Absolutely - do I want to go to school for an MBA, work 12 hours a day, six or seven days a week? No, maybe that’s why I make what I make. Even with company paid tuition I would rather stay enjoy myself - 18 years of school is enough.
  Off-load work? If you think our so-called “partners” produc a shoddy product, think back to when Japanese meant cheap poor quality. Wait until “they” come up to speed. If you want to see where things are heading, read about Detroit. If you are truly unhappy and feel that Boeing is screwing you, why not go somewhere else where they pay twice what you now make, give you 3 months vacation, pay all medical costs, give you $200 a month for every year you worked your butts off.
  Unions are the balance between companies and employees, they came about because of abuses by employers, but you have to be careful it doesn’t swing in the opposite direction and you kill the goose that is paying you.
  Do I think some of you are ‘whiners’? Sure, some of you are. Do I think some of you are ‘deadbeats’? You know some of you are. Are some of you malcontents, thinking that the company ‘owes’ you because you work your butts off? Yes, I think some of you are. Do all of you work your butts off? Really? Do a lot of you put in a good days work? Sure you do, but if you honestly look at what you produce you should ask yourself if you would pay that much if you had a company. Look at all the people that work here that walk around and screw off a couple of hours every day (I’m not pointing fingers at only the IAM).
  I bet the company could get rid of 1/3 of the workforce (including management and SPEEA) and still function - if they could get rid of the right 1/3.
  I don’t believe there are too many people that really work their ‘butts off” every day.
  I remember being asked by my former colleagues why I bothered to go to college when they found out that I made less money than the mechanics I used to work with. Why? So that when PanAm went out of business I might have a chance to get another job. I wonder how many of those mechanics found another job that paid as well as the company that screwed them.
  Are executive salaries outrageous? Sure they are when you compare them to our salaries, but you can’t hurt McNery, or Scott Carson, but you can sure screw yourself by thinking holding a gun to ‘their’ heads will not result in a long term commitment to get rid of you. Companies don’t plan only for 3 or 4 year contracts, they look down the road. Unfortunately, that’s reality and some of you better start looking in the mirror and keep in mind that one day your children will need a job - hopefully not in the service industry.

• 53. LS  |  September 13th, 2008 at 10:17 am

  I hear the stories and read the signs which claim that Boeing has unfair labor practices and think to my self, REALLY? What could be more unfair than being paid for 40 hours of work when you only accomplish 12? (How many IAM workers does it take to screw in a light bulb? 12. one to retreive the light, one to carry the light, one to get those two guys coffee, one to check the quality of the light, one to get the ladder, one to get those two guys coffee, one to retrieve the light from the inspector, one to transport the light to the place of installation, one to get those two guys lunch, one to posistion the light in the socket, one to hold it for 45 minutes while the guy who twists it takes a break, and finally the one who actually twist the light.) The fact of the matter is, Every one who has been a machineist at Boeing longer than 8 years is over paid.

  From the figures I have seen, the average salary is 54,000 to 56,000 dollars a year before overtime, around 66,000 including overtime, mind you this is not including heathcare, pension, VIP Match. You should count your lucky stars you are being paid so well for having nothing more than a High School Education. And you are asking for increases which will result in earnings topping 68,000 before OT, 77,000 with? How much harder are any of you working now compared to three years ago. Your greed and sense of entitlement is disgusting.

  You claim you are an honest hard working American. America was built by people who were selfless, by people who strived to better themselves, by people who were willing to contribute to the greater good. If you want better wages, make the sacrifice to struggle through working a full work week, some over time, and a taking college classes. Boeing does more than most companies by providing you the oppurtunity for a paid education. You say that it is hard to make the time, Improving your situation is not supposed to be easy.

  You must (well, you don’t have to, I guess) realize that you are part of an institution whose sole goal is to turn a profit. You want ridiculous raises and language in your contract which restricts the offloading of jobs to partners. To use a cliche, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You don’t get both. Boeing does not have to answer to you, they have to answer to their share holders (the people who spent their well earned dollars to own a portion of a company). By asking for the amount you are, and asking for Boeing to restrict offloading, you are doubling the demands on Boeing. It does not make financial sense. But, you don’t care. Remeber though, what’s good for the geese is good for the gander.

  Perhaps, if their were more college educated people among your ranks, you would realize the economical implications of what you ask for. Beoing is able to offload work because there are people who are willing to work for the wages and benefits they are being offered. Furthermore, if there was a vision greater than the next three years, you might realize that it would be more beneficial to not try to bully Boeing into offering more than is deserved just because you have them between a rock and a hard place. Come next contract talks, Boeing might just be caught up on the 787, where will your leverage be then? You are going to price yourselfs out of a job.

  You claim that you want to be compensated for the sucess of the Boeing company. In turn, would you be willing to take responsibiltiy when times are not so well. Would your Union be willing to take a 13% pay cut when the industry is in a downturn. I do not believe so, I do beleive you would be willing to take less. But, the fact is, you would still be taking. At what point are you willing to give. At the point you are willing to give, it will be too late, your jobs will be gone, the IAM will be no more.

  The 87% by which you voted to strike is astounding. This shows a strentgh and soladarity (in the face of ignorance). Look at Michigan, the unions there were strong, unwavering, unflappable. Mind you, they are no more. At least they still have their dignity, right? I guess, if you call dignity having your union disbanded than applying for the job you just lost and being paid 60% of what you were (with a much smaller fraction of the benefits).

  Just a quick question to all of the new hires. How do you accept a job at a cetain salary and benefits, than just with in a couple of months get offered more and decide you don’t want it? Don’t be lemmings following the next guys off the cliff. Think, be an individual, ALL OF YOU.

• 54. yes  |  October 1st, 2008 at 6:21 am

  I see that we all agree on one thing, we build great airplanes. We also talk about ignorance and greed at the time when the world market is in trouble. Can the IAM afford not to settle quickly or is Boeing going to starve the Union?
  I heard recently from upper Boeing managers there are talks going on, but they state everytime they have a discussion with the Union it keeps changing the target! Where is the truth? Neither the Union or Boeing is keeping us really informed right now. I am tired of the excuse the Union and Boeing are so far apart. Children, lets play together and go back to work! Union IAM members keep your greed to yourself and have dignity in the aspect that we also build the best planes in the world. We need to go back to work, we have better benefits then most people in the United States already. I will be going back to work soon, tires of the bickering and nouthing being done.

• 55. yes  |  October 1st, 2008 at 6:22 am

  I see that we all agree on one thing, we build great airplanes. We also talk about ignorance and greed at the time when the world market is in trouble. Can the IAM afford not to settle quickly or is Boeing going to starve the Union?
  I heard recently from upper Boeing managers there are talks going on, but they state everytime they have a discussion with the Union it keeps changing the target! Where is the truth? Neither the Union or Boeing is keeping us really informed right now. I am tired of the excuse the Union and Boeing are so far apart. Children, lets play together and go back to work! Union IAM members keep your greed to yourself and have dignity in the aspect that we also build the best planes in the world. We need to go back to work, we have better benefits then most people in the United States already. All bickering and nouthing being done.

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