Three Way Power Play - 777, 787, A350

February 13th, 2008

Working at a fast a pace as is possible, Airbus progresses towards initial design freeze of the A350-900 variant scheduled for October 2008.

In doing so, the strategic shift of the A350-1000 model has started to evolve - something addressed as recently as December 2007 in that the said model is now no longer a direct rival or substitute for Boeing’s highly successful 777-300ER.

Airbus A350XWB

All images copyrighted and owned by BOEING777 and FleetBuzz.com

In an entry posted here, the A350-1000 has been quietly moved to target the soon to grow replacement market for the 777-200ER market with a slight increase in capacity in various tri-class seating configurations.

While Airbus markets the airplane as a 350 seater, Emirates has candidly revealed to my colleague Geoff Thomas that it will not be configuring its A350-1000’s anywhere the capacity of its existing 777-300ER’s, of which it has a substantial number remaining on order.

Emirates has 10-across in economy and the 777-300ER in the airline’s Ultra Long Long Range tri-class configuration accommodates 354, while the A350-1000, which is about the same length, in the same ULR configuration will seat 317, according to Emirates vice-president route and fleet planning Richard Jewsbury.

“Based on Emirates’ mission rules, the A350-1000 will burn 21per cent less trip fuel, and on a seat basis 11 per cent less than the 777-300ER,” Jewsbury says.

However, he adds that the 777-300ER can carry another 6000kg of structural payload in the Emirates configuration.

 

Qantas Boeing 747-400’s

The bulk of Emirates A350 orders is for the -900 model, which will eventually displace the airlines existing 777-200 and 777-200ER models. The A350-1000 therefore, plugs the gap between the -900 model and the large 777-300ER.

However, the Airbus jet still falls considerably short on range against the 777-300ER as well as freight capability.

British Airways, along with Qantas are both examining the A350-1000 for their eventual 747-400 fleet replacements - BA is concerned that in the absence of a dedicated freighter fleet, the A350-1000 does not go far enough either volumetrically or in uplift capability to offset the performance gains and cost savings by switching to that model.

BA has relied on underfloor belly space for the majority of its freight operations and fears that Airbus’ -1000 model will have to sacrifice seats for range or that increased freight will mean that lucrative routes such as Hong Kong and Singapore may invariably end up carrying fewer fare paying passengers.

The dilemma that Boeing faces aside from executing the revised test program, is whether press forward with incremental improvements to the 777-300ER or instead focus on an all new 777 replacement.

As mentioned before, the proposed 787-10 has yet to be defined. Speaking at the recent 29th Annual Aerospace/Defense Conference hosted by Cowen & Company in New York, Boeing Commercial Airplanes President & CEO Scott Carson said of the proposed 787-10 as being a “good product against the (777)-200, -200ER class airplane“.

This ties in well with the initial guidance given that the 787-10 will eventually materialise as a possible 320-seat, tri-class airplane, replacing the older 777 models mentioned by Carson and in discussions I have held with four existing 787 customers, two of whom are European airlines.

In effect, what we’ve seen with Boeing and Airbus’ two new composite families is the 787 cornering the A300/A310/767/A330 market while the A350 has emerged as the A340/early 777 model replacement.

 

EVA Air Boeing 777-300ER

So where does this leave the newer 777-200LR and 777-300ER models?

At the recent Cowen & Company conference, Carson went on to state that “a major replacement for that [777-300ER] product is likely to be an all-composite aircraft” but that it will not be available until “the end of the next decade.

Campaigns such as replacing the huge 747-400 fleet at British Airways has forced both Boeing and engine make GE to examine updating the 777-300ER as an interim solution - however, there are worries that while the 787 sucks in financial resources during its delay will mean that the company will end up offering second best alternatives to the A350-1000. One European airline I have spoken to has made no secret that it wants a completely new 777 replacement to counter the A350-1000.

For a while during the 1990’s, Boeing was labelled with the “derivatives-r-us” moniker until the 787 was launched in 2004 - almost ten years after the last all new airplane, the 777, entered service.

Investing in a high gross weight, longer ranged 787-10 model will almost certainly require a major rework of the existing 787 wing. Engines, systems and undercarriage added into the mix will invariably push the bill up by a few billion dollars - money that could equally be used to update the far wider 777-300ER.

There is no question, that left unaltered, today’s 777-300ER will not be as efficient as the A350-1000 due to enter service mid next decade. Having watched Airbus procrastinate over the A330-derived A350 proposals prior to accepting an all new design, Boeing can ill afford to venture down the same route.

Air France Boeing 777-300ER

With Carson confident that a 737 replacement will enter service around 2015, timing of a 777 update or replacement will be of paramount importance.

In an industry where airplanes can be in service for 25 years or more, it is ironic then that the widebody competition between Airbus and Boeing is showing the 777-300ER, which entered service in 2004 being replaced by the end of next decade. The shift in materials usage and integration of new technology usually dictates a longer service life and it may well be viewed that today’s traditional aluminium airplanes are just not what the marketplace now seeks, much less a mid-life makeover.

Where the 787 is not yet without its risks and a revised delivery target not yet announced until Boeing’s earnings call in April, the A350 has managed to push the 777-300ER into a strategic review. Whatever the outcome of that review, the one certainty is that the existing model cannot continue in its current form.

Farther out, while Carson is optimistic about the 747-8 Intercontinental sales prospects during 2008, the 777-300ER was by and large born out of the 777-300 model, which itself sought to supplant older 747 variants - any major update to the 777-300ER will have a direct impact upon the 747.

An interim upgrade to the 777-300ER will make selling a quad jet all the more harder while oil prices show little sign of dropping below $80 per barrel in the near term, despite benefiting from the new 787 derived GEnx engines. Furthermore, the strategy employed by Boeing over the last quarter of a century pioneering ETOPS flights will likely force customers to push the US plane maker into continuing the trend for large airplanes powered by just two engines.

That strategy has been successful and indeed, instrumental in Airbus designing its new A350XWB family into an arena is had previously argued could only safely be done with quad jets - largely to promote the lowly sales achieved on the over-budget A380.

While the 787 has arguably won the key section of the marketplace it was designed for, the real tussle lies between what Airbus does to the A350 and Boeing’s response with the 777.

In the battle for market supremacy in the 300+ seats segment, this three-way power play will hinge largely on which model(s) provide the most value for customers.

Right now, the 777-300ER certainly has the upper hand.

 

 

Sphere: Related Content

Entry Filed under: 787 First Flight, 787 Orders, 787 Premiere, 787 Rollout, Aeroplane, Aerospace, Air Transport, Air Travel, Airbus, Airbus A350, Airbus A380, Airlines, Airplane, Airplane Order, Airplanes, Airport, Airports, Boeing, Boeing 777, Boeing 777-200LR, Boeing 777-300ER, Boeing 787, Boeing 787 Order, Boeing 787 Orders, Boeing 787 Premiere, Boeing 787 Rollout, Boeing Orders, British Airways, Dreamliner, Dreamliner First Flight, EADS, Emirates, FleetBuzz.com, Jet Travel, Randy Tinseth, Richard Aboulafia

8 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Boeing Investor  |  February 13th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Does Boeing have the funds to do a 787-10, a 777-300ER upgrade *and* a fully new model?

  • 2. Chris Wallace  |  February 13th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Boeing certainly does have a number of options available to them.

    They could do a 3m stretch and 5t MTOW increase to the 787-9. This would allow the existing wings, engines, and undercarriage to be used, but would offer the least-competitive option. It would make a great A330-300 and 777-200 replacement, but it would come up short in both range and payload over range to the 777-200ER and A350-900.

    They could do a longer stretch (6m) with a larger MTOW increase (15-20t), but this will require a new undercarriage geometry (six-wheel trucks) and as such a new wingbox will be likely needed. Such an MTOW increase would also require a more powerful engine both to lift the extra weight as well as to improve field performance with the wing (which is good for 290t, but likely suffers from field performance issues at that weight). Such a move would allow for a possible longer stretch and MTOW increase to challenge the A350-1000.

    The 777-200LR and 777-300ER are already likely at their MTOW limits, so the goal would likely be to reduce the MEW (Manufacturer’s Empty Weight). Moving from Al to Al-Li for the fuselage and wing panels would lower weight, as would building the center wingbox out of CFRP and Al. Every ton of weight that can be taken out of the 777 is another ton of payload it can carry or one less ton of mass it has to tank and burn fuel for.

    The issues facing Boeing include:

    Different airlines want different things for a “787-10″

    The current 787 backlog means any 787-10 would likely not become available until 2016 to 2017 - 3 or 4 years after the A350-900 and 1 to 2 years after the A350-1000.

    Boeing would likely prefer to have actual 787-8 flight test data to help refine their numbers for the 787-9 and 787-10, but that program is now running around 12 months behind.

    Airbus has yet to publish the final specifications for the A350 and will not do so until the end of the year.

    I tend to think we’ll hear something more concrete around the UK air show this summer. It could very well be the formal announcement of the 787-10 with some very hazy details with firm configuration announced in Paris 2009. Airbus is taking close to 18 months from initial announcement to firm configuration of the A350, so Boeing could offer very generous and flexible purchase rights for the 787-10 in July to get airlines to at least tentatively commit.

  • 3. Jacobin777  |  February 13th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    I agree with Mr. Wallace except for the ..

    “They could do a longer stretch (6m) with a larger MTOW increase (15-20t), but this will require a new undercarriage geometry (six-wheel trucks) and as such a new wingbox will be likely needed”

    Assuming this is the B789..this is pretty close to a hypothetical B787-10…

    If Boeing can get the B787-10 to around
    260t, it will make the A359 toast (this B787-10 would be 5t lighter than the current A359)…even if the A359 will be able to fly farther and/or have a higher payload…I dont’ see anything further than a B787-10 (possibly a HGW version)…I think the
    A359 right now in its current iteration is a B787-10HGW…”

    … in the long-term, I don’t see any way around it…the B777 will have to be replaced with newer and better technology…and a
    larger wing profile..

  • 4. keesje  |  February 13th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    Its seems a Boeing policy to totally ignore the A330s in discussions / comparisons. I see no reason, hundreds have been sold since the 787 was launched.

    Its a four way powerplay.

  • 5. Aurora  |  February 14th, 2008 at 12:03 am

    The A330 certainly has proved it still has legs. However, in 10 years time, I would expect to see most parked in the deserts in Mojave or Arizona.

  • 6. Jacobin777  |  February 14th, 2008 at 2:29 am

    @Keesje..

    That could be the farthest from the truth. The B787(-8) specifically addresses planes such as the A330….It is a plane which Airbus actually has neglected, hence why the B787-8 has sold more than TWICE the amount of the B787-9 and A350-8 combined!

  • 7. keesje  |  February 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Farthest from the truth ?! What?

    One would get the impression following the news and forums but the A330+A350 have sold pretty well during the last few years.

    Not including the hot selling A330, but including the slow selling 777-200/ER/LR is taking a ride with reality IMO.

  • 8. boeing777  |  February 16th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Slow selling?

    Of course, it appears lost on you how many 777-200ER’s there are in service compared to the A330 fleet - further, the -200LR is a niche airplane but a far better seller than the A340-500.

    Like it or not, had the A350 entered service within twelve months of the 787, the almost “giveaway” like deals on the A330 would not have existed - although I would not be surprised to see you both deny and dismiss that.

    The A330 is a stopgap for the A350, period. Compared to the 787, its yesterdays newspaper.

Leave a Comment

Required

Required, hidden

Some HTML allowed:
<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed


Calendar

February 2008
M T W T F S S
« Jan   Mar »
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
2526272829  

Subscribe Here For Updates

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

Recent Posts

RSS Active FleetBuzz.com Discussions

Recent Comments

RSS Randy's Journal

Blogroll

Category Cloud

Boeing Airlines Air Travel Air Transport Boeing 787 Aerospace Aviation Airplane Airbus Airplanes Airplane Order Airport Boeing 777 Airports Aeroplane Boeing Orders Dreamliner Boeing 747-8 FleetBuzz.com Airbus A380 Airbus A350 Jet Travel Travel Boeing 787 Orders Boeing 787 Order Boeing 787 Premiere Boeing 787 Rollout British Airways 787 Orders 787 Rollout Airbus A320 787 Premiere Emirates Low Cost Airlines EADS Low Cost Carriers Dreamliner First Flight 787 First Flight Open Skies Airbus A321 Airbus A319 Airbus A318 Fleet Replacement Dubai Airshow

Archives

YouTalk

YouTalk is a new feature to the Editorial. It's your chance to write an article and discuss it with the readership. If you are a registered member on FleetBuzz.com and you would like to submit an article for publication, please send to the following: admin@fleetbuzzeditorial.com

RSS Feed

Audio


FleetBuzz Editorial

↑ Grab this Headline Animator